…after a 25 year absence. I just ordered a set of drums
http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEAFX725SC,
and they come with a crash-ride and high hat cymbals. Will these be adequate for my needs (my band will be playing mostly 60’s rock, nothing very heavy) or should I upgrade right away?
I would also very much appreciate any help in the form of advice, links, etcetera that y’all can give me.
Thank you
Q
Yeah, Forums are OK. Just make sure to tune 'em well, and replace the cymbals whenever you can afford to.
IANAD, but I’ve played with a number of pretty good drummers. It seems to me that even playing mostly 60’s rock, you should have two cymbals in addition to your high-hat–a crash AND a ride because most drummers use them for very different purposes.
I’ve never heard of a “crash/ride” cymbal. I think you need separate cymbals because it’s possible that (for example) you may be playing quarter notes along with the beat but you want a crash on the 1-beat. If you want to continue the ride quarter notes you can’t wait until your lone “crash/ride” cymbal stops ringing from the 1-beat crash to keep playing the 1, 2, 3, 4 ride notes.
Yeah. Sorry, I assumed you’d be getting an additional cymbal or two. :smack:
I used to love selling Pearl Forum kits, very high gross profit % :). They’re decent drums, but they’ll need new heads in order to sound decent. For 60’s rock, I’d reccomend coated heads like a Remo Ambassador, or Emperors if you’re a heavy hitter. Evans has some cool new ideas as far as that kind of head goes, check em out too.
The cymbals will have a very high bronze content and will probably sound pretty terrible IMO. Notice the description doesn’t mention a brand name, that’s not good. However, every cymbal sounds different (even 2 same-type cymbals) so you might get lucky. I reccomend going to a pawn shop and seeing what they have, sometimes you’ll find a great deal on decent cymbals. In short, try em out gently, if they sound like crap sell 'em to some kid who doesn’t really care about sound quality. Zildjian, Sabian, and Paiste all make great cymbals as well as beginner lines. You should be fine with 2 crashes of differing sizes, a 20" ride and some 14" hats.
Be gentle with those drums in particular. You’ll notice that the shells tend to flex a bit. If you’re a bigger guy, some of the light weight hardware that comes with the kit might not hold up i.e. bass drum pedal, throne, sometimes even the hat pedal.
FTR, I had a crash ride that I used for my last project which was kind of a rock group and it was perfect. You could’ve bought that cymbal at a pawn shop for $30 I bet. I used it, a crash, and hats.
Good luck!
Interestingly I have noticed that a trend among modern young drummers seems to be a combination of minimalism and variety. I have in the last 6 months or so seen good bands with odd kits based around a jazz kit.
One had 2 African drums of some description rather than a bass or rack toms.
One drummer played a tambourine and a chinese block mounted on a cymbal stand nearly as much as his snare.
My favourite was a guy who drummed for two solo artists. He had a jazz kit which he augmented with all the handheld percussion imaginable as well as button accordion. A song may start with him playing kick drum and hi-hat while playing an accordion intro. Then he would pick up a tambourine and start belting it with a set of brushes. By the first chorus he’d be drumming. I spent as much time watching him as the two headliners.
New York duo CocoRosie had similarly imaginative drumming.
I think it’s a terrific trend.
Thanks so much for your advice! Here’s a couple more questions if y’all wouldn’t mind?
dnooman , thanks for the advice on the cymbals, may I ask what your cymbal set-up is?
The last time I “sat in” on drums, the drummer had one of those double kick-pedals. I am used to the old Ludwig Speed King, so would it benefit me to go the newer double kick?
Sticks? What are some of y’all’s favorites?
Thanks for all the help! All of us guys are over 50 and have been away from the music for a while, so whatever y’all can contribute in the way of advice, you have my undivided attention. 
Q
Drummers are the most maligned of God’s creatures. The first thing rock stars do when they get famous is (A) hook up with a supermodel and (B) fire the drummer. That’s gotta suck.
But, um, it won’t be that way for you…
I’ll just echo some of what others have said.
Get new heads ASAP. Those Pearl stock heads suck–badly.
Get new cymbals when you can. Those Peal stock cymbals suck.
Have fun.
I wouldn’t worry about the double kick pedal.
Good luck Quasi, I’m sure you’ll do a great job. Let us know what you end up with.
RYBTP
I’d agree with most of what’s already been said, but there are no firm answers to some of your questions.
Pedals are very subjective. If you like the idea of a double pedal (as opposed to carrying around a second bass drum) then , by all means, get one. I’d recommend trying different ones at a good music store. I don’t use one myself, but I’ve played a few. The absolute fastest I ever tried was made by Axxis (sp?) but cost $600 new (ten years ago). DW makes very fine equipment as well, but again, not cheap. I defaulted back to my original Pearl pedal (probably the same one you’ll get with the Forum) and like it just fine. I’d recommend you play what you’ve got for a while before you decide whether or not to upgrade.
Cymbals, too, can be pretty subjective. When I got back into music after a 10 year hiatus (about 15 years ago), I walked around a music store with a drum stick and hit every cymbal in the store. I didn’t look at brands and I didn’t look at price. I listened for what I liked and what sounded good together. I found I have either good ears or expensive tastes because I ended up buying all Sabian HH cymbals (20" “classic” ride, 18" light ride, 15" sound control crash, 14" medium thin crash and 13" Zildjian hats which I’ve replaced with 13" Sabian Fusion hats). I’ve added a few specialty cymbals since. (Well, you did ask.) Every drummer who’s ever heard them raves about how good they sound, but not many would want them. They cost too much and have to be played with a lighter touch to get the best effect.
If I’d known I was going to have so many cymbals I’d have gone with a rack system instead of stands. Now it will be mondo expensive to switch. Just something to think about.
For a more vintage '60’s sound, go with Zildjian. (I don’t really care for the sound of Paiste or Pearl cymbals or any of the generics out there. But, again, it’s all subjective. Trust your own ears.) “Trashy” is not necessarily a bad thing.
Sticks and heads are even more about personal taste. Your choice of sticks will be pretty clear, pretty quickly. Get a variety of different kinds and see what you like. It seems to me that most drummers are using wood tips, but I don’t know why. (Well, I know why, I just don’t agree. I prefer the sound of nylon. And they don’t break any more often if you play with accuracy. YMMV) Size depends on how you play. Smaller and lighter for speed, bigger and heavier for power. 5B seems to be pretty common and a good starting point. Brand is all about feel. Look at some different brands and you’ll notice slightly different shapes and textures. Some use a lot of lacquer (which I hate) while others are more bare wood. Zildjian sticks are very front heavy due to a thick “shoulder” (the part just behind the tip). Over time you are going to buy a lot of drumsticks, so keep trying different kinds until you find what you like. (And they’ll be really expensive or the company will quit making them. That damn Murphy and his law.)
Choosing the right heads is a science and an art. It’s all about finding the best compromise. Single ply heads are the brightest and most responsive (sticks bounce easier), but don’t project as well and are not as durable. (You might want to try using them on the bottom of the toms.) Double ply heads are darker and don’t respond as quickly. But they are LOUDER and they don’t tear as easily. There are other considerations as well. Try different things over time and see what works best for you.
A couple of other things. Twenty-five years ago you would have been using duct tape or felt under the head to dampen the ring of the toms. And the snare drum doesn’t have that little felt pad mechanism in the shell anymore. Things have improved a lot. “Moon Gel” looks like little rectangles of blue gummy worm stuff. Put a piece or two (or three for big drums) on the head along the edge and never think about it again. For my snare, I use some “Zero Rings” (by Remo, I think). These are light plastic rings you lay on the drum. Start with one then add one or two more (overlapping) until you get the sound you want. “Drum Pillows” are recommended for dampening the bass drum, but I use a “Ring Control” head on the batter side and a bandana (or scarf) hanging from the lugs on the outside against the head and that works perfectly for me. (Except in the wind, which blows the scarf around. The wind can cause problems with the snare drum rings as well. Keep some duct tape handy. You are a musician (or hang around with them, anyway). You need duct tape.)
And finally, I learned a lot about tuning (and general drum maintenance) from a video called “Drum Tuning Sound and Design with Bob Gatzen”. I don’t know if it’s still in print, but it would be well worth trying to find. (I’m not sure how accurate the title is, but it’s close.) The narrator can be a little goofy, but the information is very useful.
Good luck, but mostly just have fun.
I’m not dnooman, obviously, but I’ll tell ya anyway since I don’t get to talk about it much. My cymbal setup is a 20" K Zildian ride hanging low a little over the floor tom. I’ve had that cymbal for like 20 years. It has all kinds of sounds in it. I have a 16" Zildian crash that’s older than the ride between the ride and the right hand rack tom and a 10 or 12" Sabian Sound Control crash between the Left hand rack tom and the Zildjian quick beat high hats. It’s a fantastic little crash but sadly it’s cracked and I don’t think they make them anymore.
I’d say skip the double for now at least until you get your chops back up and all basics working again.
I’ve been using Vic Firth 5A wood tips probably for the last 15 years. It’s a good medium weight stick. If I need something lighter I’ll use a 7A. I also have a couple pairs of ProMark Hot Rods, which besides playing on the drums are fun to tap on my knee or whatever else around the house is suitable.
I’ve always used Remo pinstripes on the tops of the toms, clear heads on the bottoms, and a coated Ambassador on the snare. Sometimes I’ll use a ring made from an old head to muffle the snare but typically I just let the snare and toms ring.
Have fun!
Thank you! I have already ordered the high-hat clutch dnooman mentioned in the other thread, and for now, I will stick with the Ludwig Speed King pedal.
As I may have mentioned before, I am more of a Watts/Starr kind of drummer, but I want to provide the absolute best beat to support my bass and rhythm section.
Our band wants to stay in the sixties, so whatever advice y’all can provide is much appreciated.
As I wrote before: You have my undivided attention.
Can’t wait to get started!
Thanks
Q
Nice drums!
My wife got me a set of Mapex V series with Zildjian ZBT’s. I’ve added a few more cymbals and now I need to get more hardware to hang em! I’m an awful drummer and need lots of shiney stuff to detract from the lack of talent. 
I actually took about 30 years off from drumming. Hell, I wasn’t any good back then either!
I find ebay has some pretty good stuff for sale now and then. I buy bricks of sticks for way cheap. I like the 7As. Must be my weak girl-arms.
Rock on!
I have Zildjian 14" New Beat hi hats (serious classics), 16" and 17" A custom crashes, a 20" Rock ride (that I really hate) and an 8" Sabian splash I think it’s an AAX but the paint wore off. I wish that crash/ride I used in my last project was mine, even though it was cheap it had a really unique sound.
People have started fights over Speed Kings, some people value them more than life itself. I like 'em. I just needed a bit more lightness and a double pedal for what I was playing. If you’re getting back in the swing of things and don’t have a lot of double kick experience, don’t bother. That night come later, but right now it would detract from your first and foremost duty which is to be a solid drummer.
I use 7A wood tips of varying brands such as Johhny Rabb, Vic Firth, Regal Tip and sometimes Pro-mark. Nylon tips annoy me, the sound is ok, but the tips fly off too easily which makes the stick almost useless. An earlier post of mine explains my stance on sticks.
Gotta go. Back later with more.
I am grateful to you all for your advice, and I feel I need to tell you about this band of mine:
And most importantly , we will not take the stage until all our sets are tight. Given the information I just wrote, think of this blossoming band as another Sha Na Na .
It is for this reason that I want to be the best drummer I can be, and why I value your advice as much as I do.
Believe me, I am making notes!
I am replacing the heads and the cymbals even as we speak!
Thank you VERY MUCH!
Quasimodem
I’ll relieve you of it, for a fair price. Email me with more info. Same name, hotmail.
Wow. 60’s soul. You have a tough act(s) to follow.
Most of those guys * invented* terms like pocket, groove, solid, and feel. BTW, those are the most important elememnts in great drumming. Unless you’re talking about math rock or metal, then it’s okay to be a machine.
Your bass player needs to know that the two of you make the band work. He also needs to know that you set the tempo and feel always. You’re basically a human metronome, but without the robotic ignorance to “feel”.
I hate to get all “zen” about drumming but it’s a real thing. I was a forming member of a band that did pretty well, I trained my replacement drummer, and the last drummer studied my tracks. Lay-people tell me all the time that I had something the others didn’t, the drummer I groomed to be my replacement agreed. The final drummer was far superior to me as far as technical ability, yet he lacked feel. The audience noticed this. It changes everything.
The type of music that you’re playing is not able to be faithfully reproduced without the proper feel of the song being in place. This is difficult for many people to understand. It’s also hard to convey in text, that which can only be conveyed in sound.
I’d love to help your project Quasi, lemme know if there’s anything I can help with.
Hey, that was your response to my question about all the sticks I was breaking. Did you ever get my “thank you” e-mail? I’ve quit breaking sticks, and in fact I’ve been on the same pair for quite a while now ever since reading yours and other’s suggestions
Don’t think I did, but I’m always glad to help. Maybe I can claim to be an expert at something afterall.
Judging the grain can be a bitch as I’m sure you’ve learned. Either way you win in the end though.
I was always taught that rolling sticks was idiotic, physics says otherwise.
DfrntBreign Made some really good points, as did Mack. I’m glad they said what I was too lazy to type.
I agree- there’s a lot of creativity in drumming these days, and bass is more of a lead instrument than ever. Can’t say I’m seeing the same creativity from guitar players, but maybe I’m hearing the wrong people.