Getting into MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)

Well it is true that you are underestimating my music talent, but I still do need advice. That is what I am debating here. How to stand in.

Also CT may be small but it is also one of the most competitive areas in music. There is the Hartt School here which is Considered the best or at least one of the best music schools in the nation I am also taking part in an orchestra offered at this school which is pretty difficult. Did you know that one year, only one orchestra went to play in the London Olympics from USA and that orchestra came from the Harry School. And this school is located only 30 minutes from my house! So CT is huge in music competition. Do not underestimate the power of being a top player in CT.

You can’t be sure.

You just can’t. There’s just not that many slots. They admitted 1700 kids last year. How many kids graduated? Well, for a point of comparison, around 40,00K kids a year get a 5 on the BC calculus exam. That’s a very rough ball park for the number of kids out there looking to go to a highly competitive school and who have reason to believe they have some expectation of success ( a 5 in BC calculus correlates to a bunch of other skills–it’s not enough in itself, obviously). So it’s a lot of solid kids chasing not that many slots.

On top of that, there really aren’t 1700 slots. Some will go to “development” (I assume that happens at MIT), for kids there is reason to believe will be strong donors in the future, or legacies. Then there is a level of kids you just can’t compete with: children of senators and ambassadors, kids whose parents were in Doctors Without Borders and grew up reading Kant and Descartes in war zones, kids who started successful businesses, have published academic papers, who are successful actors or musicians, or have an otherwise compelling personal narrative. I had a student who was academically amazing, and also a Serbian refugee. She got into every Ivy but Yale, and she didn’t apply to Yale.

So when you are done with that, you’re down to what, 1000 slots? At the end of the day, there’s going to be some randomness. If you get too tied into just one possible future–a future you can’t control–you’re setting yourself up for heartbreak. Develop a strong resume, but don’t think in terms of “MIT or bust”.

We’re not underestimating it. We’re telling you flat out that it’s not going to make a big difference in getting accepted to MIT or any other prestigious school. Lots of kids have great musical or other extra-curricular credentials; and lots of kids get into MIT with none of those. It’s not a big differentiator.

Ok, I don’t think any of us have underestimated high school violin in Connecticut. If violin is that important to you, why aren’t you targeting the Berkeley School of Music which is only a long stroll from MIT?

It is an honest question. You never told us why you like math as a career choice more than the violin or the long-term reasons why you are so dead-set on those two things in particular.

What high school crush? I am not saying before 18 because it is a distraction and you can forget about doing to a good school like this if you are wasting time on girls at this age. Clearly that statement you made was an exaggeration because there is nothing worse than having a high school crush.

I agree. OP, I am an undergrad at an Ivy League University (physics and materials science). I’m only about seven years older than you, and I remember that for a few months in grade 12 (high school senior year) I thought quite similarly to you. However, these people are right; the university that you go to does not define you. Do not think that you must go to a top, top research university in order to go to grad school or get a good job.

Edit: When you said that MIT students are “considered so good it’s not even funny”, whom do you mean by “they”?

If you aren’t interested in dating, you’re totally missing out on the best reason for being a teenager. Actually, it is probably the only good thing about being a teenager. Your loss.

This can’t be for real. Can it?

I might have missed this earlier, but are you at a public or private school, and have you met with your college guidance counselors yet? If you go to a decent school, your college guidance counselors are going to be the best resources you could use for helping you with this.

How have you come to the decision that you must attend MIT or one of the Ivy League schools? Have you visited any of them yet? How will you know what you really like in a school if you’ve never taken a tour or sat in on some classes? Applying to just those schools is a horrible decision. You need to apply to a variety of levels of schools. If you don’t apply to any safety schools, you will be screwing yourself over.

While going to a good college can help you get a job or get into grad school, there are other prestigious schools that aren’t MIT or an Ivy League. While the school I went to wasn’t an Ivy League, but it definitely helped me get my jobs.

I teach at a very good boarding/day prep school in New England. Taking precal your sophomore year here means you’re a good math student, but not at the top of your class. The best students here are the ones taking multivariable calculus and/or linear algebra their senior year. At your school, your math level may make you stand out, but compared to the rest of the applicant pool for the schools you want to go to, you’re not as awesome as you think you are.

You’ve also stated that you’re planning on getting a high SAT score. How do you know that you are capable of doing that? Are you taking the PSAT tomorrow morning?

What do you want to do with math? Upper level math classes are all proofs, unless you’re an applied math major rather than a regular math major. A good thing to do would to be to ask people what they do with their degrees in math. I have a friend with a higher degree in statistics who works for a pharmaceutical company. Other people have become math teachers, work for banks, investment companies, Apple, Google, Amazon, etc.

Being good at math and playing the violin does not make you unique and will not make a big different in getting accepted at MIT. Lots of kids who are good students play the violin in their orchestra and make All-State. As other individuals have stated, CT is a small state, and making All-State isn’t as impressive as you think it is. It would be more impressive if you were from a larger state like TX or CA. Other users that are not freshman in high school have stated this earlier - we know what we’re talking about. You would stand out more if you played Appalachian fiddle tunes at a nursing home for an hour a week in addition to your orchestra.

A very important part of your college application is your essay. I know people who didn’t have the grades or SAT scores they needed to get into the college of their choice, but the topic of their essay made them stand out and got them in. You need to do something impressive or have overcome some hardship by the summer of 2015 that you can write about.

Dunno, but that’s the post that cemented my position on Anonymous User’s intentions.

Same here. I feel silly for being one of the first fish on the hook. The world’s smallest orchestra is playing for me- I got trolled by a violinist!

I guess I’ll pile on and ask why you think we are underestimating anything.

You do realize, I hope, that several of us have successfully applied to (and better yet, graduated from) top notch universities? Better still, many of us have had the opportunity to go to top notch graduate programs. Maybe we actually know a little bit about the process, no?

If you want more bona fides, I, like some others here i this thread, got accepted to several Ivies. Also got rejected and/or waitlisted at a couple others. Top GPA? Yup. Top but not perfect SATs? Yup. Extracurriculars? Sure, plenty of them. Also a fair pianist and a top trumpet player. Also completely irrelevant to my fields of study (double major in math and EE, graduate work in EE, and a career in seismic geophysics, which uses the sig proc part of the EE degree if it seemed kind of a random career choice).

How much did any of the music stuff differentiate me? Not much at all, though I continued doing it through college and even after graduating (which, come to think of it, some of that passion might actually have shown through). The thing is, after you get into college, you have greater access to admissions staff. They’ve seen it all before. Simply being good at a musical instrument doesn’t differentiate you from the crowd. Nor do high scores.

From personal experience, admissions officers love, after a few drinks, to gripe about all the cookie cutter applicants (high scores, musical instrument, token number of volunteer hours) they get and how they make it hard to figure out if there’s an actual human being under all the spin doctoring.

Once you strip away all the BS you do to get into college, what kind of person are you? That’s what they’re looking for. Sure, you need to clear the minimal academic hurdles, but you have to demonstrate there’s more to you than the token activities you do to look good for college apps.

What can help? Well, MIT, like many schools, has a personal interview. If you don’t have much personality to back up the resume, you’re not helping yourself. Your essays and recommendation letters also matter. My high school teachers were kind enough to show me their rec letters, and the best ones weren’t the ones that merely said “this is a diligent, high scoring student”. The best ones had a personal touch and showed not only that I had a personality that stood out (whether good or bad) from other students, also showed the teacher’s personality - which meant it was more than a form letter.

AU (may I call you AU? OK), look, you may be correct. Is that what you wanted to hear when you started this thread? You may be correct. You may keep on keeping on with your bad self and do what you’re already doing and in three years you’ll get into MIT. I look forward to the thread where that happens. But congratulations aren’t in order just yet. It might not happen.

You may do everything you’re doing and in three years you don’t get into MIT. Whether that’s a good or bad thing will be seen in three years, but, regardless, we’re not three years in the future. We’re right here, right now, in 2012 where you’ve started a thread asking about how best to get into MIT. Because no matter how confident you appear to be, a part of you is unsure.

Actual graduates of MIT have weighed in with advice in this very thread and your immediate reaction is to reject their advice. You are claiming that you know better than the very people accepted to MIT how best to get into MIT. Does that seem logical to you?

You know what the biggest thing you learn in college is? It’s finally learning how to learn. Start early. Reread this thread and this time, pretend you actually want advice from the people who have actually been in your position and succeeded.

Baloney. Do you realize that your application to MIT is going to be written? Sure, your GPA, test scores, and other stuff will be there, but those numbers aren’t going to stand out much in the sea of applicants that MIT gets. They’ll probably be good enough that you’re not disqualified, but the rest of your application is what needs to get you in the door. Your written essays have to set you apart from the rest of the applicants. Take a look at the freshman admissions page here:

This is where you communicate your passion for the violin, in writing. If you do it well, maybe they’ll listen to your recording. This is where you explain your commitment to tae kwon do, in writing. This is where you get admitted or rejected by a school that gets 2000 applications a year with 3.95 GPAs (damn PhysEd!) and combined SAT scores of 2250, and it’s based on your written words.

Well, yours and those of your references. I encourage you to treat them better than you’ve treated the people in this thread who’ve tried to help you.

And in the professional world, an engineer or mathematician who can’t or won’t write is pretty useless. If you do go to MIT (or Cal Tech, or Princeton, or Embry-Riddle), you’ll take classes that cover reading and writing, because you’ll be doing it your entire career. If you can’t communicate what you’re doing and how important it is, it doesn’t matter how brilliant you are.

Oh, bull. The reason a lot of kids in my class didn’t have girlfriends in high school wasn’t because they renounced love like Alberich or something. In any case, I think it plausible that the admissions office does not want a class full of socially clueless people of either sex. They can have any number of socially clueless instrument playing math whizzes. They probably don’t get enough well rounded applicants.

Trust me, sex and calculus do go together.

I’m a big fan of the area under the curve. :stuck_out_tongue:

I tell you, if you’ve never integrated your natural log into a girl’s Pi until she Eees to the X, you’re subtracting one of the greatest pleasures in life.

Well, maybe not. I was a technical writer for over twenty years, and I did my share of hiring. Any errors in grammar or punctuation or spelling, no matter how minor or seemingly-insignificant, caused the application to be round-filed. I didn’t care about how well the applicant could program, or what school he or she had gone to; if the written English wasn’t up to par, I wasn’t interested.

Excellent point. I’ll add that written communication plays a big role in the modern workplace. Sure, there are e-mails; but if you’re the engineer with the plan for a better mousetrap, you’ve got to communicate (i.e. sell) that to others. Your PowerPoints had better be professional-quality in all ways, and your handouts must be clear and unambiguous (marketing people and executives don’t do well with many words engineers like to use); and most importantly, you must present yourself and your idea in a totally professional way. Grammar, punctuation, and spelling errors in your materials indicate sloppy preparation; and if that’s the care you take in preparing those, then in the minds of some, it might also indicate the amount of care you’ll put into the project. Bottom line: how much will the sloppiness and carelessness in your materials translate into dollars off the bottom line? Can we trust the specifications documents this guy produces, or will somebody have to take time–and time is money–to double-check his stuff? These are the questions your bosses (i.e. those with the authority and money to make your idea reality) will have.

OP, don’t dismiss the usefulness of clear and correct written English. When it comes time to get a job, your facility with it might be the factor that differentiates you, and your MIT degree; from the other guy, who can’t communicate as well as you, but who also has an MIT degree.

I can’t speak for MIT’s admissions office, but I can certainly speak in general. A lot of really crappy, completely dense, horribly written things get published in STEM fields. You can build a career being completely terrible at English. This is not recommended. For one, I know many professors, graduate students, and so on that have flat out rejected papers and methods for being impossible to comprehend.

That is a reference that person could have gotten, we would have cited their paper if we used their methods or results as a starting point like we planned. That would have increased their academic standing.

I have seen papers where the algorithm or concept as presented was fundamentally broken given the way they described it. Through weeks of trying, we eventually arrived at what we suspected they meant by what they wrote. This is also not a good way to do research.

I TAd an upper division AI course at my university (hardly Ivy, but top 50 in my field). This involved a lot of formal math (proofs and the like). Do you know what I did when somebody’s grammar was terrible? Completely disregarded the part I couldn’t understand. That brought their grade down. Now, this makes me sound like more of a hardass than I actually was, all things considered I probably was an easier than a harder grader, but I was simply not going to spend hours deciphering gibberish in the hopes that a student super double secretly understood what they were talking about, the professor agreed. You might say “but in pre-calc!” No, stop right there, you do not know what higher level math looks like. Higher level math involves a lot of writing – in fact, when I took Automata I probably wrote more words in a single paper than formal notation in the whole class. Even in a class as simple as linear algebra it was probably about 50/50 words/formal notation. Heck, one of the first things I learned in college is that it’s much easier to get partial credit on a problem you’re struggling with if you explain your approach in words and pictures instead of flailing around with equations and constants that only make sense to you.

Finally consider your post-MIT life. I assume you’re planning on getting a position somewhere after you graduate. Let’s say you want to do data analytics at Google or something. Those famous tech companies? They value communication immensely, Google and Microsoft specifically (many Math majors apply there – it’s not just computer stuff) ask many questions of the form “explain <x> like you’d explain it to your grandma.” The ability to speak clearly, coherently, and simply is considered the mark of an intelligent person. The more you flail and talk with industry jargon and buzzwords while trying to explain a concept, the more they suspect you don’t really understand it. We had an upstart tech company come in and try to recruit people once and the first red flag was inability to simply articulate what they were looking for in the database programmers they wanted to recruit.

I’ve had professors supervise my research that force you to communicate what you’re doing in a paragraph or less, with as few technical details as possible. Hell, I work heavily under the assistant director of a department at my university and he flat out told me once that they were rejecting several very smart, intelligent potential grad students with amazing grades (on paper) just because they couldn’t convey information clearly in favor of lesser qualified students (on paper) who could communicate.

Yes, you can probably get into MIT and even have a decent career with middling communication and English skills, but you will face a great number of hurdles that could easily be avoided simply learning to convey information in a clear manner (and I’m not perfect at it either, I’m still learning a lot). I’m not saying you have to be a poet. In many ways what an average high-schooler or college undergrad would consider an “English type” is pretty poor at communication, at least in the ways that matter for a STEM field. You just have to be able to write in a way that will get as many people to understand you in as efficient a manner as possible. You can splice a comma, split infinitives, or use the passive like a mofo. It just matters whether the grammar is consistent and sound.
Yes, I perfectly realize the irony of talking about conciseness and efficiency in a post this long and rambling. No, pointing out my inevitable grammar, spelling, style, or usage mistakes will not in any way invalidate my points (and in fact is a logical fallacy).

I don’t know, but it really reminds me of The Math Song

You’ve got a brain
And nobody really needs another love song…

Sadly the OP isn’t quite as awesome as The Darkest of the Hillside Thickets.