The College Game (Not a real game, just a plea for advice)

In My Humble Opinion
1

So it has begun. The dreaded junior year has come and it is now halfway complete. I have taken the majority of the necessary exams to enter college in a year and a half, so the time has come to start visiting these schools. It has been one of the most humbling experiences of my life. These schools have been here for centuries, and I am just one more student hoping to enter their hallowed halls.

My parents have decided that the college that I will attend will be completely my own choice; however, they are accompanying while I visit all of the colleges in order to show morale support.  So far, I have visited four of the seven that I may attend in the near future.  The only problem is that the differences between the colleges are minute at best.  The three that I am yet to visit are most likely going to follow the same pattern.  They are all top-notch colleges that offer a liberal arts education with small class sizes and professors teaching most of the classes.  On my cursory visits, the most distinguishing characteristic is the landscaping of each college.  I cannot imagine making my decision based on such a trivial aspect, such as landscaping.  How can I get a good feel for these colleges and truly differentiate between them?  I have already attended the information sessions and the campus tours.  I plan on spending a weekend at a few of the aforementioned colleges.  

Looking ahead, I have noticed another predicament.   I come from a very homogenous and affluent community on Long Island.  My public school usually has many students applying to the Ivies, and in most cases we have a rather good percentage.  Recently, an unfortunate trend has risen.  These schools are accepting fewer and fewer qualified students from my school and the neighboring towns.  Many feel that living this area adversely effects your application.  There is stiff competition from within my school and the surrounding areas.  Food for thought, 25% of the Intel Semi-Finalists came from Long Island.  Currently, I have grown fond of one school in particular.  On paper, I should be able to gain admission, but this college, as well as many others like it, is very fickle.  It is nearly impossible to guess with any semblance of accuracy what this college will do.  To complicate matters even further, I am not sure how to utilize best my early decision.   If I were to apply to my first choice, my odds of getting in would be about 50-50.  In the event that I get deferred, my chance of getting into my second choice and third choice school decreases.  This year, someone applied early to the same college I am looking at, but they were deferred. Today, they found out they were accepted in the regular pool, but was rejected from their second choice school.  This second choice has a habit of doing this.  If I apply to this school early rather than my first choice, my odds are getting in are at about 80-20 in favor of acceptance.

Decisions, decisions, decisions. Do I risk applying to my first choice school and possibly hurt my chances with my other schools, or do I go for the much safer thing and just ignore my first choice. This has no effect on my safe school no matter what, so this isn’t going limit my chances of going to college. Second, money is not a determining factor. I thank everyone for their help in advance.

P.S. As many of you have probably already noted, the names of the colleges I am visiting and my statistics are conspicuously absent. If anyone feels that it is necessary to know, I will gladly supply more information. Once again, thank you.

P.P.S. This is the second time I wrote this, so I wrote this from memory. Please bear with me.

2

Well, as a senior in high school, I was basically in your position now. Except I hadn’t visited any at this time last year…I started in the summer. I know, real slacker. :slight_smile:

I don’t know anything about probability and odds…I didn’t exactly look into mine w/ that degree of detail, sorry. But I remember visiting the campuses. Most of them had a definite feel to them. Are you going at times when no students are around, like spring break? If that happens, it does feel kind of bleak, like just a bunch of buildings. Usually, though, while they all seem great in the books, when you get there, you get a sense of what they’re like, based on the students, as well as what they emphasize on the tour and all.

So what is your top choice? I know you said you wanted to leave them absent, but I was just curious. If you don’t want to say, I apologize, but was just interested.

3

Another senior trying to figure out how he’ll spend the next four years of his life checking in.

My advice to you is to check out Midwest and West Coast schools. The CT-NY-NJ axis of good students is filling up the admissions office of all the great Northeastern schools. So look at places like Pomona, Carleton and Davidson. They’re good schools that don’t get many students from our area. Also, if you do have a definite first choice by September I’d advise you to apply early. Many schools took people early that they wouldn’t have taken regular. Also, your guidance counselor is full of great ideas for you and resources, so make a point of it to check stuff out with him/her. Finally, don’t slack off 3rd quarter of your senior year. Because it’s so hard to predict how many students will attend a certain school with the burgeoning number of high school seniors a lot of places are waitlisting people, and some of those places will want to see your grades. I have a friend who has to explain a C- in stat to BC.

Good luck!

4

I feel your Pain. I went to Stuyvesant. You say that Long Island has 25% of the Intel (formerly Westinghouse) semi-finalists? Well did you know that Stuyvesant High School fields more finalists than any other STATE in the nation? I’m not downplaying your problem. I’m just saying I know where you’re coming from.

Have you been staying overnight in dorms when you visit colleges? This made a pretty huge difference in my choices. I ended up deciding NOT applying to a school I had thought I would really like (UVa) and applying to a school I hadn’t considered (William & Mary) and I ended up going to William & Mary (it was my safety school after I got rejected from NWern, Rice and Wesleyan. I don’t wanna talk about it <frowny yet smiley face>).

I guess the point of me even bringing this up is that I was a good student, good grades, v. solid but unexceptional SATs (1360 this was in 1993 before they changed it), varied curriculum, extra-curriculars (incl leadership roles of course) in one of the most academically rigorous schools in the country, and I ended up going to my safety school. Amazingly, I do not live in a cardboard box under the bridge; in fact I have a really fun and interesting job. I enjoyed my college years and made great friends even though the college was not the greatest fit for me as a person.

If what you say is true, and all the campuses really are that similar you would probably have an enjoyable time at any of them. In this case, don’t sweat it, apply early descision – it’ll take a weight off your mind.

5

This is a very strange year for admissions. Some of the Ivies have recently changed their financial aid policies, which has widened their applicant pool somewhat. September 11 also may have changed where people applied; it certainly changed where they visited this fall and this limited the firsthand knowledge they have of some schools. Yet Michigan, for example (which always gets boatloads of LI folk) had an increase on out-of-state applicants. At the same time, many states are having serious funding problems and there is a lot of press about how state universities are going to have big tuition increases and program cuts–which might make private schools more appealing. Heaven knows what the visa changes may do to international student enrollments. In sum, colleges have no idea what’s going to happen on May 1 when everyone’s deposit is due. Next year is going to be just as screwy as people try to figure out if there is some new pattern starting or everything is going to go back to how it was in prior years.

So what am I saying? Don’t make any decisions based on what colleges seem to be doing this year. They’re still figuring things out, and they might be doing things differently next year, too. Get your bases covered with a good array of schools, and don’t let hearsay talk you out of applying to ones you wanted to.

6

Close your eyes and pick a college. It doesn’t matter which one. Really. Unless you are looking for a specific type of college (law school, medicine), it does not matter in the least. You will find this out after you’ve completed the first semester at whichever college you choose. The class sizes, professors, facilities, clubs and organisations; none of this will matter to you. The decision really isn’t as difficult or important as the universities would like you to think.

7

I suggest two things that I think will help you figure out where you will fit in best.

  1. Tour several dorms and look at what people have taped to their doors. Is it stuff you like, or does it make you cringe? Do you feel like you would fit in, or would these people drive you insane? Don’t judge based on just one dorm – many colleges have dorms with distinct personalities.

  2. Look into what extracurricular activities (clubs, music programs, intramural sports) are offered. Are they activities that you want to participate in? Will you be able to participate? It may not seem like it should matter to your education, but finding a group of people you like will go a long way toward staying happy at school.

These are not the be-all, end-all test of whether a college is for you, of course, but they did help me choose between two fairly similar schools. It’s a tough decision – good luck!

8

Well, I’m a freshman at Swarthmore now, which was sort of a random choice for me, because I hate applying myself to those kinds of decisions. Basically I applied to Swarthmore and Rutgers, because anybody in NJ possessing some form of intelligence gets into Rutgers, so I figured I would go there if I didn’t get into Swarthmore. Anyway, with my first year drawing to a close in another month, I’d say I have mixed feelings about my choice. The academics are pretty fulfilling, but I often feel kind of bored here. But then, I’m not a very social person in general, so that might have happened regardless of where I chose to go. I’m tempted to agree with the previous poster who said “close your eyes and pick one.” Unless the place is obviously the opposite of what you want, I think you’ll do OK anywhere.

-Andrew L

9

Wow. I’m glad I’m not in your position right now. I’m in my third year at UofGuelph (Ontario) and although it WAS my first choice, I chose it for a program I’m not going to bother to try and get into (Vets, just like every other frosh :)). I keep reading about how it’s becoming harder and harder to get into university, and how applications are increasing a lot more than the schools can really handle - in Ontario they are expecting a huge increase in enrollment when they get rid of grade 13 completely (Sept 2003). People are fast-tracking, and applying EVERYWHERE apparently, just to get into university SOMEWHERE.

I don’t want to discourage you - by the sounds of it, you’re going to be fine, and to be honest, a lot of places aren’t THAT picky about who they accept, unless it’s for specialized programs. I’m just glad I’m not having to go through the stress of choosing a university right now! Once in a lifetime is enough!

What Cull said is kind of true, though - you’ll love your college no matter which one it is, and as long as you make efforst to have a good time, you will. Good luck!

10

First, I must thanke everyone for the different perspective. Now onto some important details. My parents absolutely refuse to allow me to go much farther than the east coast. This puts huge contraints on my college selection.

So far I have visited UPenn, Princeton, Columbia, and Yale. I visited the campuses all during class time. The colleges still seemed pretty similar except for the fact that Princeton felt empty and Columbia was teeming with life. I plan to visit Brown, Cornell, and my safe school of NYU. When I visited Yale, I just got a good vibe.

My guidance counselor left me and my fellow students in the middle of the year, so now we have this new counselor who doesn’t know us or the colleges that well. She is not a good resource, unfortunately.

I have friends in UPenn, Yale, and Columbia. They promised me they would try to permit me to follow them around for a day.

My whole entire grade applies to Emory, GW, and Michigan. The smarter kids apply to UPenn and Cornell. It is like a repeat of Long Island, so I think I may try to avoid these schools as best as possible.

Unfortunately, the campus tours do not allow one to see the dorm rooms. The common excuse is “the dorms are all different so we don’t want to discourage or encourage you by them.” Second, many of the clubs are the same. All the colleges emphasize their sports, and their “wacky clubs” hoping to show their uniqueness. Ironically, all the colleges have A Capella groups and a Juggling Club, but I wasn’t planning on joing either of those.

My scores are quite good on my standardized tests and so are my grades and I am doing an Intel this summer, but in the event that I get deferred from Yale I might not gain admittance to UPenn because my whole school has applied there.

Have I thanked you guys yet? If not thanks, if yes well thanks again. Argh, why did these colleges have to adopt need-blind policies. I know it is to allow more diversity, but it hurts me so much.

11

I agree with the poster who suggested you tour the dorms- several different dorms-and get a feel for the personality differences of the campuses that way. In the ideal world you could revisit the campuses you’ve already seen.

Other ways to get a handle for the personality of the campus: Read the campus newspaper. Read the other free papers hanging around campus. Check out the flyers on kiosks and bulletin boards. Walk around the area of the town surrounding the campus. Go to a sporting event.

If you are outgoing enough you could just stop a passing student and ask them questions. This happened to me a few times when I was in college and I was delighted to have my opinion asked. Of course, you may stop the biggest jerk at the school, or the only person there you could possibly connect with, so this is obviously subject to sampling error.

After you’ve done some things to expose yourself to the feeling of each campus, go with your gut instinct. Good luck!

Hello to the other William and Mary alum (your safety school! Sheesh.)

12

Funny story, not really, just amusing. I went to UPenn and I promptly picked up the newspaper. I started to read through it and I noticed articles filled with curses, articles about the basketball team wearing bikinis instead of basketball shorts, and other ridiculous stuff. My parents were mortified. Thankfully, someone saw us reading the newspaper and told us it was the April Fool’s edition.

I’ve had some great luck with stopping people. I just keep picking nice people that just want to talk and promote their school.

13

Well, I fully agree that you should try to visit a dorm and meet some students. If the official campus tours don’t encourage this, see if your teachers or friends can put you in touch with a current student who is willing to let you visit.

Also, have you gotten a chance to sit in on any classes, preferably in your intended major? This is a good way to get a feel for what the classroom culture is like. Check out the course catalogues and requirements as well; some colleges have a broad spectrum of required courses, while others let you specialize early on. Both approaches have their advantages, so figure out which one is right for you.

Oh, and a slight hijack…

Hi, carlotta – make that the other William and Mary alums. When did you graduate?

– FP, class of '98

14

Lost in Reality writes:

> All the colleges emphasize their sports, and their “wacky clubs”
> hoping to show their uniqueness.

Would you like to go to a college that doesn’t even have sports teams? Perhaps you’d be interested in my undergrad school, New College in Sarasota, Florida. Highly selective, interesting academic program, oddball students, and absolutely no sports teams or fraternities or sororities.

15

If you aren’t egtting good feelings off what you’ve seen sor far, don’t go.

Every college is unique (believe it or not, and I toured some of the same schools you did.) But not all of them will fit you, and most will fit you half well (Eh. I don’t think I’d kill myself here.)

You don’t have to settle for that. Look until you find a school that makes your heart lighter to step on campus. You’ll spend a lot of time there, happiness is vital. (I know it helps when I’m crawling out of the computer lab at midnight before an 8am class to look around and see that I really do love my school)

Find what you are interested in and see how well the school supports that. (I wanted both a strong engineering program and a strong philosophy program…tricky, but possible.) Also check out extra curriculars, so you don’t like juggling, but what about the robotics club, or the three am book discussion group?

How well does the administration take care of undergrads? Is it a research school where the good profs are all doing research? Does the registration process suck? (One school I eliminated solely because registration took three hours of standing in line and the secretaries were mean and unhelpful.)

Living quarters, can you get the dorm/house/space that you do best in. (I need my own room. I needed to be in a single. Other people may need a kitchen, etc.)

Basically, know what you want and see if the school in question has it. I love NYC, and tried hard to find a school there I fit with. I was horrified that Columbia essentially isolates itself from the city. It felt too stuffy/laid back for me. I need the wild city atmosphere. I knew this.

Please let me stress that you find a school you will be happy at. Academics are not everything, and in college your ability to preform academically often revolves around how comfortable the rest of your life is. Good Luck!

16

Another one going for"just choose one." It’s all about what vibes you get from the school.

I’m at Alfred University in southwestern New York, coming from Oregon. I must admit that I checked out this school because they sent me an honors newsletter full of jokes-it stood out from the piles and piles of mail I got. It turned out that their administration was cool and I got a scholarship despite my late paperwork based on my SATs. The factors to really look at are the location, the students, and financial matters-I don’t know your situation, but this is a big concern for most people. As someone else said, if you aren’t going for a specialty right off the bat, there aren’t big differences between liberal arts programs, even if you don’t go to an ivy league school. Schools that aren’t ivy league are a good, cheaper place to figure out for sure what you’re doing in college. I could have gotten into Ivy league schools, but I chose not to apply to them. See how the campus feels, how many students are there, and what the surrounding town is like. I think most people will do ok most places-I didn’t visit, had no idea how small the place is and am not in the programs that interested me here-but I’m pretty happy, I like the people, I’m getting a good education nearly for free. College in general is great fun and it won’t really matter where you do your undergraduate work(unless you’re already very fixed on a specialty). So don’t stress too much and I would second that you need to go to the dorms and meet people on campus.

17

There is only one way to respond to this, wow. This has been so extremely informative and helpful, thanks a lot. I will definitely sit in on a couple of classes, hopefully the ones related to my possible major. Sports are a must for me. I like the Ra-Ra feel and the unity, even if I don’t make the Varsity teams. I don’t need to go to one of the huge NCAA Colleges that win everything. How can I find out about the registration process? When I visit the colleges again I will be sure to pick up a “Things to do” newsletter. I think I really like New Haven. It is small and quaint, yet it has many of the features of a big city. The only negative is the unsolved murder involving a student and teacher :frowning: .

The most likely scenario is that when I enter college I will major in one of the hard sciences (Chem, Bio, Physics, etc). I keep on hearing that these people who major in these have no social life. They literally live in the labs. A bunch of my college-age friends are majoring in either stuff they really enjoy and taking the requisite science courses to allow them to enter Medical school or take a common major like communications or economics and take the requisite science courses to allow them to enter Medical school. They repeatedly said that majoring in a science is not necessary and not worth it. Do we have any science majors here on the board? Is it as much work as they say? Would you change your major if you could? Don’t laugh but my honest dream is to either become the Surgeon General or do research and help with the cure and be a doctor to support myself. Do you feel that it is essential that I do major in something relevant to science?

Finally, if anyone has any pull at the aforementioned colleges please, I implore you, pull for Lost In Reality when you see my name on the application.

18

I found out about the nightmare registration process by happening to visit on registration day. I watched it. It was bad.

I’m majoring in Chemical Engineering. (Well, and philosophy, but we’ll focus on ChE.)

What I know:
~I’m doing more work than the chem majors I know. (Average third year Eng class homework- five problems, three person teams, 10-12 hours a person. Average third year chem assignment - 15 problems, individual, 30 minutes while sitting in the hallway before class.)

~If you want to do med school and are considering majoring in bio, do bio eng instead…straight bio is kinda whimpy. (In my mental list of where difficulty stacks, bio is down with english lit from what I have seen. Not that they aren’t worthy, but the amount of work involved is far less than what I do.)

~For a benchmark, I can still maintain a life, but its hard. If you are doing anything remotely time consuming, get your time management skills together and don’t plan on partying. People who go get drunk on thursday nights are on a different planet from me. I am on campus or at work from 8am-9pm most days, and on tight weeks I’ll be in the labs until midnight hashing out homework problems.

If you aren’t gung ho about the whole science major deal, don’t do it. Major in something you can choke down for four years. Classes you aren’t interested in will always be the hardest in your schedule. (Even if you are gung ho, see what science classes are required for pre-med and see how close to a degree they’ll get you. I know that any engineering degree here is one class away from a math minor, for instance…see what you need to get done.)

Consider a school with a pre-med program. Talk to pre-med advisors. See what other opportunities are available to make you look good to med schools. (In Pittsburgh we have eighty million hospitals, our premed kids can do undergrad medical research, internships at specialty hospitals, etc, etc…its cool stuff.)

19

I’m probably repeating what some others have said, but just go and visit a decent amount. I disagree a big with Cull–I have been in two colleges so far, and they are both EXTREMELY different. I went from a small, liberal arts school with a really fun campus culture of inclusiveness and being serious about your work to a huge university with a frat/party/rahrah sports campus culture. Yes, my experience at both is very different, and yes, I do have a very strong preference for one over the other.

Just make a list of what you want in a college–both physical things (professor/student ratio, campus size, majors available) and nonphysical (attitude of faculty–are they teachers or researchers?, is the culture party hard or study hard?) attributes that you would like. After you do that, the choice should be easier.