Why would anyone go to a small, highly competitive, rural college and ....

In My Humble Opinion
1

what’s it like once you get there?

Some examples: Colby, Bates, Bowdoin, Grinnell, Carleton, Middlebury, Williams.

I’m starting to read up a bit on colleges as my oldest child is moving on in school. And I was surprised to find how many of the top 50 colleges fit the above description.

I would think that for a very, very, small minority of students this kind of place might be great. Off in the country with no distractions. Lots of bright people around. Nothing to do but study all week.

But I’d think that most teens would choose a place that’s either bigger, like Cornell, or in or near a city, like Haverford or Reed. And what about the possibilities for sex and romance? I’d imagine that you just don’t have as many chances with a small group of these hard working nerds as you would at Ann Arbor or Madison or Bloomington. And these are four important years in terms of sex and romance.

If it were me I’d be terrified of the boredom.

Comments? Success stories? Disappointments?

2

General Questions is for questions with factual answers. IMHO is for opinions and polls. I’ll move this to IMHO for you.

DrMatrix - GQ Moderator

3

Here’s my two cents:

One school always feels right. For me, it was the University of Arizona. Where your child goes must be based 100% on their own feelings and what they want to get out of college. Yeah, the sex and romance, not to mention the general socialization, party scene, etc. are probably better in big schools. I personally am quite glad I decided to come here. What the U of A offers turns out to be what I want to get out of college. I had a friend who’s going to a religious school (Principia College) which makes its incoming freshmen sign a pledge not to have sex, drink, smoke or use drugs for their entire student career there. :eek: I, personally, would rather be drafted. But she’s getting what she wants out of college. That’s her thing.

Yeah, your child might end up bored at a small school if it’s not what they’re looking for. But never, ever assume you know better than your child does about what’s good for them. Please. It’s their decision. There’s not much more of a surefire way to end up in the lowest-bidder retirement home than making your grown-up children’s decisions for them.

4

I’m a Colby grad (class of 1995). I picked it because of it’s location, actually, as much as anything else. I had specific requirements for a college: mountains around, snow in winter and far from home (Tennessee). Colby fit those, and I got in. I also applied to Bowdoin and UT-Chattanooga (safety). I didn’t get into Bowdoin - which was actually my first choice, but I think I liked Colby better than I would have liked Bowdoin.

Things may have changed since my time there - it has been 10 years this spring, but when I was there, there was far from nothing to do. Sure, Waterville’s not your hoppin’ town all the time, but what that means is that the social life for students is mainly on campus. Beyond that, you really are only three hours from Boston, close enough for a weekend trip down, and Quebec is 4-4.5 hours away. Colby did (and maybe still does) well at bringing some decent names to campus. While I was there, they had Hootie and the Blowfish there twice, as an example

The students during my time took their partying pretty seriously, although by the time I graduated, the administration was cracking down on the level of drinking pretty significantly. Finding someone to date is not an issue - I met the guy I dated for three years and lost my virginity to while I was there. There’s casual dating too, and with a small school, there’s the opportunity to develop a pretty tight group of friends. Colby also encourages study abroad (I wasn’t able to because I changed my major a little too much), and from there is the opportunity to spend a semester or year in London or Rome or some other place.

That said, (most) students do study hard at Colby. Classes are tough, but the students often make the best of it, both working and playing hard. The location isn’t right for everyone - I know people who were miserable the first year and ended up transferring. Your child really needs to look and decide what’s best for him or her. Some kids thrive in the smaller schools and some need the variety of a place closer to a larger city.

5

Smith '96 here. Plus I grew up in Ithaca, the town where Cornell is, and my folks met when attending Reed in the 60’s so I have a good sense of those schools as well.

I chose Smith (beyond it’s reputation and the women’s education factor) mostly because of its location. It is in a smallish town, Northampton, but only 2 - 3 hours from Boston so has good balance there. More importantly though, while there were bars, cafes and other activities in town…plus some great restaurants…I’ve found that a smaller town lent itself to a more cohesive campus. Your social life and activity is centered around school.

Is that for everyone? No, absolutely not. But if what he or she is looking for is a very school-oriented experience then a small rural liberal-arts school might be the right place for your kid.

Plus I think you are under a misapprehension here. The schools you mention aren’t chock full of nothing but of hardworking nerds. Instead, in my experience, they are full of bright, East Coast prep-school track hard drinkers and partiers. Trust me on this – no one knows how to party and screw like a kid coming out of Choate or Andover. They may not be really sophisticated about it but are all about practice, practice, practice.

Of course there are worky nerdy types, but don’t believe those glossy guidebooks for how the campus population really looks and feels. They are marketing tools and nothing more.

I think fetus has it right, it is all about the feel your kid will click with. The only way to really be sure about a good fit is to visit. So why not take your kid, hit the road and go see some of these schools? October is a FABULOUS time in New England. You can also visit some big city schools like BC or Columbia and find a giant state college to check out too. Then once your kid has had a chance to see which type of school has the right feel you can narrow your search more.

Good luck.

6

Does Dartmouth count? The closest major burg was White River Junction, and it’s not really a hotbed of activity. Yes, a lot of the social activitiy there centered around frats and alcohol, but that has changed dramatically since I went to school.

One of the biggest draws was the outdoors, Dartmouth (and most of the schools you mentioned) have access to great outdoors activities from hiking, biking, canoing, and skiing. Our class size was just over 1000, that’s plenty of people to find romance. How many do you need to choose from? Any as others said, there is plenty of partying, possibly more than at larger schools due to the isolation and need to create your own fun.

To some (like me) it just felt right. These campuses are much more vibrant than I think you give them credit for.

7

To tell you the truth, it is quite difficult tio get a quality undergraduate education at a huge school like University of Michigan or Indiana. Having lived in Ann Arbor and known many products of the undergraduate program, I would say, mildly, that taking classes taught by a TA (whose first language may or may not be English) with 600 of your closest friends is not an effective way to learn for many people. These are excellent, superior facilities for graduate education. But for undergrads, I think under 10,000 is ideal. Just the fact that you actually get to know your professors – and they may even take an interest in your future – is a huge advantage.

I didn’t go to Grinnell but I came very, very close. My dad was dead set against it but when we visited both he and I got a very, very positive vibe off the school and students. Sure it’s in the middle of nowhere, but it’s only a couple hours to Iowa City where you can party with all the frat boys you like, buy bagels, and go to Iowa football games (if that’s your thing.)

The school I did go to (The College of William & Mary) is just as secluded in its own way. With Colonial Williamsburg in charge of the town, it’s the antithesis of a college town. Yet it is still eminently possible to party till you’re naked, and yes, there are plenty of boys in a field of 7,000 or so.

8

Another great aspect of a smaller school is the fact that the administration and the various offices actually care about you.

I graduated from Mount Holyoke College (same area as the Smithy above–a series of western Massachussetts mountain towns) last year and am at the University of Hawaii this year… there’s a couple differences.

I’m on a finaid package here at UH that completely supports me, so whenever a problem has come up (three times so far), I’ve had to go into the office and stand in line to discuss my problem with a secretary. The advising sessions with actual finaid officers occur once a week, on a first-come-first-serve basis. On the other hand, during my last semester at MHC, the finaid officer I’d worked with (who my mother got into long discussions with while they went over the FAFSA) gave me her card and told me to get in touch if I had any problems here at UH. She also networked me with her sister, who runs a study program in Japan. Guess who I trust more to be looking out for my best interests?

The college administration in general, too, is much more receptive to student input at MHC, in my experience. Petitions and protests of 50 people actually get noticed in a student body of 3000. Your tuition dollars (exponentially higher as they are) speak a lot more forcefully at a place like that. It’s possible to get walk-in meetings with the deans and the president lives across the street… and students are welcome to come over and discuss things with her.

So, there’s a lot a smaller school has to offer besides nerds (and who doesn’t love nerds?).

9

I don’t know that Notre Dame qualifies as small or rural, but the entire focus of college life there was on campus. It was a very closed community. Some people loved it. Some, like me, moved off-campus as soon as possible despite being then cut off from having any social life to speak of.

Anyway, it’s the right atmosphere for some people. My niece is going to the opposite extreme and applying to NYU.

10

Like Lsura, I’m also a Colby grad ('96). What she’s said about Waterville is dead on, although I think the face of the town’s changed a lot since we were there. As others have said, it’s a rather large generalization to assume that the student body of a small rural liberal arts college will be composed of nerds with no social lives. Sometimes I felt the rural atmosphere (and I didn’t have a car) contributed to an insular feeling on campus, but it did sort of enable me to establish more intimate bonds with my friends instead of going out for big nights on the town.

Also, to think that a small, rural environment might restrict students’ abilities to sex and romance it up is pretty myopic, to say the least. I suppose an advantage to attending college in a more urban, populated area might be a greater dating pool, but to each their own. There was no shortage of hookups, romances, and general activity at Colby.

Choosing Colby was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made, as my education there became the springboard for entering graduate school and getting a doctorate. Also, one of my best friends is someone I met at Colby, with whom I still hang with on a regular basis.

11

Sometimes, however, that feeling will be deceptive.

Graduated HS in 1998. Accepted at UIowa, GWU, Smith, Kenyon and Skidmore. Chose Kenyon because I visited and it just clicked. Mind you, the two times I visited were August and the following April. Grew up in rather mild New Jersey.

To put it mildly: I was in for a huge surprise. Once the novetly of the quaintness fell off, and it snowed every day for a month and a half, I knew I had to get out of there. There was nothing around the town for miles, no civilization to speak of. Added to the fact that there were only 10 gay kids, and by January, we’d all slept with one another…

Took a year off and transferred to Rider.

12

Carleton grad checking in here. I chose to go there and don’t regret it. But of course, no one kind of place is right for everybody.

I believed then, and still do, that the main point of going to college was education. I enjoy(ed) learning, and was actually interested in things like math and science and literature and philosophy and religion and art and music and history and psychology. And I wanted to be around other people who had similar attitudes, rather than those who would think there was something wrong with me for being smart and being interested in that edumacational stuff. Small class size, personal attention from full-time professors who are actually interested in teaching, a whole environment oriented toward learning—these things count for a lot.

And highly intelligent, college-age people can be some of the absolute funnest people to hang around with. The students at my school were all definitely bright and took their studies seriously, but they mostly had senses of humor and didn’t take themselves all that seriously. They weren’t competitive with each other, academically, socially, or otherwise.

I got zero sex and/or romance in college, but that was my own cluelessness and probably would have been true anywhere, and a source of even greater frustration than it actually was if I had been elsewhere, in a more sexually charged environment. True, the campus culture didn’t emphasize romance, dating, or sex, but it did emphasize treating the opposite sex as people rather than sex objects or potential partners.

What social life there was was centered on-campus and was free (movies, parties both public and private and both alcohol-centered and otherwise, cultural events, intramural sports, clubs, “floor life,” etc.) to give everyone a chance to participate, regardless of whether or not they had spending money, a car, or the social savvy to seek out the hot spots in town. In a big city or on a big campus, I wouldn’t have known where to go or what to do, and so I probably would have wound up with had no life anyway.

13

Still, I should add that some students did find the small-town atmosphere boring. If you come from a big-city, fast-paced, noisy, stimulating environment, and aren’t specifically looking to get away from that, I’d imagine a small college in a small town would be boring.

14

Williams grad here. It is in many ways the most rural of the rurals. You have two different issues here, the size of the school, and the location. A school like Cornell may be larger but is still largely isolated. I wanted a small school where I could get to know people. All my classes were taught by full professors, and the largest lecture was 200 people. In a class of 30, you get to know people in a way you cannot when the class is larger. Since I was a pre-med geek, I liked the fact that everybody applying to med school got personal attention. If they felt you should get in, the pre-med committee would go to the mat for you, make phone calls, arrange summer jobs, etc. It was also easier to participate in a variety of activities. In a larger school, there tend to be more specialized “types”. For example, it would be unusual for a science major to be on a literary magazine, and harder for non-athletic people to participate in sports. At a small school, I was able to be a DJ and radio newscaster despite not being the “type” or in the usual clique.

You do also have to look at isolation, though. There is less to do at a more rural school. I personally liked the insular quality. There was a feeling of solidarity about surviving the New England winter together. I also found that a lot of schools bring in speakers and musicians frequently. You didn’t have to go out and find things to do, since they were always coming to you. Since I love old movies, I was happy because with one art film house locally, most of the clubs earned money by showing films so you could see a new movie for a dollar or two each day.

Really, though, the only way you can tell is to visit. College campuses have a “feel” to them that your child will either like or dislike. And remember that first, many schools let you spend a semester or year abroad or at another school, and second, that many, many people transfer. From a personal standpoint, I would never, never give up my four years in the New England countryside, taking long walks in the snow with no traffic, no grafitti, and no crowds, shopping in small local stores where everybody knew my name, and being in a place where learning was not always considered secondary to socializing. I could never live there permanently, but if I had to redo my college years, I would make the same choice.

15

I agree with most everything posted thus far.

I graduated from Cornell in May, and what made the difference for me was my major. Yeah, Cornell had 13,000 undergrads and a wild frat scene, if that’s your thing (it wasn’t mine) but my major was very small: only 5 kids in my year. I got tons of personal attention from profs, got to be involved in curriculum selection (informally) and met some really close friends.

However, if you were a bio major or government or communication (as some of my roomates were), the chance of even seeing a prof during office hours was up-in-the-air, and underclassmen would often have trouble getting into some classes.

I thought that the isolation would have been more of a problem than it was, but by my senior year I was taking every opportunity to go to New York that I could.

Cheers,
Daphne

16

Thanks for all the interesting replies; I hope there will be more.

In re-reading the OP I realize I should have explained that I meant the phrase “hard working nerds” to be part of the thinking of the prospective student. Doesn’t sound like anyone took offense, though.

17

I’m a Grinnell grad ('96), and “boring” is about the last word I would use to describe the experience. In fact, one of the great things about small rural colleges is that there’s so much to do. Because, remember, the fact that they’re in a small town doesn’t mean that they’re actually anything like those towns. It’s true that Grinnell, IA is about as dull as you’d expect a remote 6,000-person farm town to be. But the Grinnell College campus is vibrant, and action-packed.

I visited both urban and rural colleges when I was trying to decide between schools, and my feeling about it was that big cities leeched the qualities I cared most about right out of the schools they housed. But being somewhat of an island, Grinnell forced students to turn inward and make their own fun. So what you ended up with was a school where the per-capita number of clubs, organizations, rock and roll bands, publications, political groups, and other non-academic opportunities was amazingly higher than you’d get at a large school or a school in a city where you can just go to the movies every Friday night. At a school of 1200 we had two improv comedy clubs, and probably one in every six students was in a musical group of some sort.

It boiled down to this, for me: by being so isolated, it could be a very pure and intense college experience. Once you grow up, you can go live in a big city any time you want, and in fact I’ve lived in cities ever since graduation. But you only get one shot at college, so why not make it the most pure, undiluted experience possible? At least that was my take.

As far as dating goes, I would say you really have nothing to worry about. Stuff a thousand 18 to 22 year olds into two square blocks for four years, and, well, you really have nothing to worry about. I’m sure my wife (class of 96) would agree.

18

Having just packed two kids off for their first years at two different schools, I agree with everything that’s been said.

Both my kids (as well as their older sister) immediately went for the smaller classes and sense of community that smaller schools offered. Only one of them chose a small-town campus (Truman State, Kirksville, MO) but he assures us there’s plenty to do every night. We notice that he hasn’t come home any weekend – even over Labor Day.

19

I’ve always maintained that college should NOT merely be an extension of high school and I’m afraid that such would be the case with a small, isolated school.

I went to a large, urban university and I learned as much outside the classroom as I did in any lecture hall. How to deal with a diverse population, how to manage finances (almost everyone gets their own apartment after their freshman year because on-campus housing was practically non-existent), how to do all those mundane, domestic things that come with being a part of the “real world.”

I’d find a small, isolated campus smothering.

20

One of my friends from high school went to Williams. I told him it was the sticks (we’re from suburban Boston). He replied it was only an hour from Albany. I asked if he had ever been to Albany, which the response was no. I would rather shot myself then go to Williams. I find rural schools, well, creepy. Granted I’m applying to UC Davis for grad school, and Davis is rather rural, compared to Lowell, MA were I’m at currently, but it’s like an hour from San Fransisco, which is one whole hell of a step up from Albany, no offense to any Dopers from there.