And what you guys don’t ever seem to get is that trolling and offensive speech are not the same thing. Their purpose is to piss people off. We can all tell this. We could rationally sit down and come up with restrictions on this speech that would not effect anything else, or we can sit and be jingoistic Americans and defend our Constitution as if it’s some holy document, while other countries with hate speech laws get along just fine.
And it’s not as if their message hasn’t been heard. We aren’t saying anything about keeping them silent. It’s just that, after a certain point, you realize their message has nothing to do with why they do what they do. Heck, that’s what this thread was about until the inevitable hijack. They flat out said that they are going to use their “protected speech” as a bullying tactic.
And it’s funny how everyone here will defend the right for school children to cause serious bodily harm to a bully, but when dealing with the real thing, suddenly the law matters again. I for one am glad that at least one troll organization inspires enough vitriol that people actually want to do something about it. And, in fact, there are counter-organizations that will legally do something about it—but you never see people defending their rights.
There are lots and lots of people spewing (IMO) shit and while I intensely dislike it I do not advocate for silencing them by law or force. Doubtless they think I am full of shit too (as some upthread suggested) and I do not want to be muzzled.
Westboro people certainly do their level best to be disruptive. Looking at some of their activities on the Wiki page it is hard to discern how in the face of the funeral goers they have gotten but they do attract a great deal of attention. Attention the funeral goers are going to be aware of. In some cases 1000 people showed to counter protest. Hard to miss it and while cool 1000 people rallied to your defense you are going to realize all this crap is happening when you want to just cope with your and your family’s own bereavement. In another case people held up sheets to block the view so I am presuming funeral goers could have seen the protesters and some good folk intervened.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if media is contacting funeral goers and family about it all which, while not trying to be mean, adds to the circus.
In the SCOTUS case where the father never knew it was even happening well…terrible case to stand on. I mean that being the case they could have been in their backyard 1,000 miles away protesting. I agree it would be silly then to sue.
Well, of course we could. We could pass an amendment that bans “hate speech”. Currently, no such amendment exists.
If you’re not proposing keeping them silent, what are you proposing?
What does this even mean? Who is defending this?
What real thing? What bullying is going on here? Give me an example of some counter-organization legally doing something about it and I’ll defend them. in the meantime, let’s not argue about what people aren’t doing. That’s a non-starter.
You owe me a new monitor.
The more I think about it, the more I regret not attending the memorial service for Ronnie James Dio, which was picketed by the Westboro Baptists. My plan was to walk up to them and congratulate them for their “fine, decent work,” and then hand over a sign of my own for them to display – and see if they even that notice my sign actually reads: “FRED PHELPS ENJOYS FUCKING CHILDREN AND SMALL FARM ANIMALS!!”
Methinks they wouldn’t have noticed.
On the bright side…someday soon, hopefully very soon, Fred Phelps will die. And I don’t think there’s anyone in the church who is crazy & charismatic enough to take his place.
Whack-a-Mole, BigT, have you ever heard of the phrase, “I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it?”
The First Amendment protects ALL of us.
Other countries have hate speech laws. So fucking what? I DO hold the First Amendment very dearly. And who defines what "hate speech is? At one time it was considered offensive to say that blacks had equal rights.
Fred Phelps and his family are a pretty small group of attention whores, and most of them are probably suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
Again – you don’t have a right to NOT be offended. There’s a lot of things I hear that piss me off. You don’t stop it by drowning people out, or muzzling them. You just try and educate others.
(Besides, these idiots jumped the shark a long time ago, when they protested at MISTER ROGERS’S FUNERAL!!!)
And yet, in that case, the original jury found for the father and awarded him millions of dollars, because it was composed of a bunch of chuckleheads who don’t understand what free speech is.
But their goal is to do their level best to be disruptive of the funeral.
As I mentioned in one case people held up sheets which I presume were to shield the funeral goers from the protesters. That would be silly if, as in the SCOTUS case, they were so far away no one knew it was happening. I will take that to mean they were close enough to be disruptive that people felt the need to block the view.
Obviously local conditions will change this. Sometimes they can’t get close, sometimes they can. In every case they seek to be as close and as disruptive as possible.
My feeling is they should be out of sight 100% for the funeral goers for these kid’s funerals.
Beyond that they can vomit their hate where they like and are (otherwise) legally allowed to do so.
You have a notion of freedom of speech that is effectively meaningless, because you want to restrict speech that you don’t like. And you have also demonstrated that you don’t actually really know anything about the protests and the protesters that you’re whining about.
mhendo (and others in this thread) have effectively and substantially backed up their arguments with facts. There’s nothing stopping you from (attempting) the same.
While I agree with you in theory Dio, I’d have to say if they got in your face after you buried your daughter and you punched one in rage, as a jury member, I wouldn’t convict you.
Justice may be blind but even Helen Keller would’ve tipped the scales.
