Getting sounds into a MIDI controller

Cafe Society
1

I came across a good deal on a studiologic sl-990 weighted-key midi controller keyboard. It gets great reviews in terms of the real acoustic piano-feel, which is something I would so love to have for the price being offered. I intend to use it mainly at home for practicing and jamming and recording. (looking to buy a macbook pro at the moment as well).

But the question is, let’s say I want to gig with it, or just use it without a computer, are there other ways to get sounds for it? Do I have to bring a laptop with me? Are there more inexpensive sound generating devices I could plug into it? I really don’t know much about this. I guess I always imagined that MIDI controllers had a sort of floppy disk drive or cartridge system where you could just load sounds into it. But I don’t think that’s the case here.

2

A MIDI controller is generally just that–a controller. It has and combination of keys, nobs, ribbons, wheels, joysticks, pads, etc. It just sends data along to someplace that can interpret that data and do something with it, like produce a sound.

Now, I’m not 100% sure what the state-of-the-art in MIDI is today, but generally, I’ve only used controllers in combination with computers, rack-mount synthesizers (these are synths without the keyboard), hardware samplers, or drum modules.

3

These are a bit “vintage,” but inexpensive: You might want to look into the Roland JV-1010, which has lots of presets and good piano sounds. Also, back in the day I really liked the piano from Emu’s Proformance Plus piano module, but that’s piano sounds only.

Now, I’m sure there’s something a lot more modern, but both those have great sounds, and are relatively inexpensive.

4

I guess in my ignorance I’m imagining there must be something like a hard drive or data bank or something which I could download sounds onto and plug it right in via USB-MIDI connection. Like that would seem to be so simple. I really don’t have the money nor do I want the hassle, of building a whole rack of different pieces of hardware each with their own unique sounds. Heck, you’d think today I could carry all my sounds on a little flash drive!

Anyone know if what I’m imagining actually exists in some way?

5

i’ve. had the misfortune. of needing. something. the same. it does not exist. they can’t. make money. on it.:mad::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
first time posting from phone. periods. all over.

6

You don’t need a rack full of hardware; a single module is perfectly capable of doing all the sounds you’re likely to need. pulkyamell’s suggestion of the JV-1010 is a good example of a device that has hundreds if not thousands of sounds already in it. It is, as he notes, a bit vintage, and it is not programmable from the front panel; a better modern equivalent might be Roland’s Sonic Cell.

You’d run a MIDI cable out from your keyboard in to the module, then plug the audio out of the module into an amp, stereo, headphones, whatever. That’s all you would need for your rig.

It comes with lots and lots of different sounds–certainly you’re covered for pianos, electric pianos, organs, analog synth sounds, orchestral sounds, etc. You can set up splits and layers of several sounds simultaneously–say, bass on the left and piano layered with strings on the right, etc. And you can edit your sounds and layouts directly from the front panel, no computer required–though it does come with software that you can use for editing it on your computer, which can be a bit more rewarding than trying to negotiate the instrument from a tiny LCD screen.

7

Hey, I have a Studiologic SL-880. I forget what the difference between that and the 990 is but mine is great. I use a couple sound modules with it but this little Alesis NanoSynth has done pretty well through the years. Looking at ebay, they seem surprisingly expensive (they came out in 1997) but if you hunt around, you’ll find one, or perhaps something similar, cheap. As a plus, it will be easy to interface with your home stereo: it has RCA plugs.

8

I’m not a keyboardist, but I played piano through college and early 20s – I keep up on the technology, though. The Sonic Cell is one I had some interest in when it first came out – compatible with the SRX expansion cards IIRC, and pretty cheap.

In a word, yes, there are absolutely modules (as they’re typically called) whose whole purpose is to sit either velcroed on top of your controller or in a rack of whatever size and give you sounds.

If you have a pro-sized budget, instead of a laptop, I’ve heard people get good mileage out of using things like the Muse Receptor module – essentially a rack-mount computer which behaves like a regular module. You can load it up with just about any software synthesizer you want, from what I’ve heard, and probably get a better palette of sounds than from one cheap module (but the SRX cards sound great, as do some of the other Roland cards I’ve heard audio of).

9

Everyone has given you right advice so far . . . the Studiologic board needs to be plugged into some sound-generating device. The Roland JV Series synths (1010, 1080, 2080) can be had pretty cheaply on the used market, the more modern (though still out of production) Sonic Cell at a higher price point.

The thing about rack (or tabletop) synth modules, is that they are out of vogue. Roland just came out with a new one that has me drooling, but checks in at around $2,000.

Frankly, based on your OP, unless you’re getting the studiologic for basically nothing, I’d pass on it and maybe look at the Casio Privia line. Retails new for $5-600, but it’s got onboard speakers, and has its own array of sounds, so you don’t have to spend money on an amp or sound module (and a midi cable, and a 1/4" cable), and it’s simpler set-up and tear/down.

A lot of cats who know their stuff have had great things to say about the Casios as far as quality for the price.

10

OK, I understand now what I’m dealing with. I’ll have to research the sound modules mentioned in this thread a bit more when I have time. (On a quick search the sonic cell seemed quite expensive, but the others were more doable).

In any case I think I’m gonna go ahead and get the SL-990 Pro from this guy, and use it with my computer until I figure out this sound module stuff.

11

Oops, hadn’t refreshed the page before my post so I missed this. Well, the dude’s asking for 185 EU neg, so I’m thinking around 150 in the end. What I particularly liked about what I’ve read about the SL is how well it compares to an acoustic piano. But at the same time, I also do fear I might regret not getting something with speakers and sounds. Most of the time I want to just sit down and play without booting up a computer and flipping a bunch of switches.

Damn, this is annoying! But I will say that 500 is out of my range right now for sure, if I want to have any hope of getting a macbook pro.

Gonna ponder this a bit more, but I think ultimately I’ll get it. At the very least, I could have something that feels like a piano in my apartment for 150 bucks, even with all the inconveniences.

But please, more input is still welcome. (Gonna stall the purchase another day or 2).

12

You might also be surprised to find how much GOOD software virtual instruments cost. A library of great piano samples, like True Pianos or Reason or Galaxy will run you at least $125, if not more (see, for example, the Best of 2010 list here.) And, honestly, there is a big difference, in my opinion. I have Garage Band, and the free piano sounds it comes with are fine, but they sound lifeless to me, compared with True Pianos.

Just getting you ready for sticker shock. Now, if you’re not that picky, it doesn’t have to be that expensive. That Emu piano sound module I linked to is an oldie, but goodie, and I think a great bargain, even though it’s about 20 year-old technology. Plus it’s pretty small: it’s only a half rack and can easily be mounted on your keyboard with a little velcro or similar.

13

In recent years, I went through a bit of this myself. I was looking for a synth module that I could control with my PK-5 foot pedals. After plugging them into a perfectly good Korg N264 (which I’m pretty sure you’re familiar with) I picked up a limited, but nifty Roland SH-32 at a reasonable price (around $200.) There’s nothing resembling a piano sound on that thing, but for what I wanted it’s pretty great. You might follow the same mold…hunt for an older unit on ebay (pulykamell’s Emu, perhaps) that does what you want it to do.

You could also look into some of the sounds available out there for Ableton Live (Are you still using Live?) which, for my money, have come a long way in a short period of time. Ableton is designed to be used on the fly (DJs love it) so it’s relatively easy to hook up an external controller to it. If you ‘like’ Ableton on FB, they are constantly offering up free sounds & crazy discounts…I’ve picked up quite a few quality sounds that way.

As for your idea of not wanting to boot up a computer every time you want to play at home, you might want to consider a tablet. It’s easy as pie to launch a sound app on an iPad (minis start at $329) and I’ve even seen people gig with them. Not the cheapest of all solutions, but even high-end sound apps are cheap compared to workstation-style modules, or pro-level VST packages, and they are constantly improving.

14

I guess the important question is, what is your honest budget to get a playable instrument, and what equipment might you already have?

You can drop 150-180EU on the Studiologic, and, on its own, you won’t have an instrument that is playable. You need a sound source/synth module, amp, stand, sustain pedal, and a few cables. If you want to use your computer as a sound source, you need an interface to convert MIDI to USB (and, as pulykamell mentions, to get anything truly enjoyable/lifelike to play, you’ll have to drop a little bit of money on the software). You may already have some of these things, so they might not factor into cost, but it’s important to keep them in mind (as well as how complicated it might be to just sit down and play; "oops, where’d the module go . . . I need 3 outlets to power everything up . . . have to drag in the amp from the other room . . . the battery has gone on my 20 year old synth, now I have to look up online how to open it up and change that . . . etc etc).

Not that I’m trying to be negative, but I usually advise people who are just starting down the road of electronic keyboard ownership to stick with simple solutions . . . they lead to a more enjoyable experience, less frustration, and can often come out to be close to the same cost as an “economical, but with more moving parts” solution, when you finally add it all up.

I don’t know where you are, but if there’s any kind of used market, and you’re not desperate for an instrument right now, those Casio Privias (particularly earlier models; px110, px310) tend to show up every once in a while (or check e-bay if that’s your thing).

Yamaha also has a model (P105), that they released to compete with the Privias; I haven’t heard as much about it, but it might be worth keeping an eye out for.

Just some more things to think about. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve wasted money on gear that was not really what I needed, but was a “good deal,” well, I’d still be out a lot of money, but slightly less. :slight_smile:

The studiologic might be the exact right choice for you, but I’m just playing a bit of devil’s advocate.

15

:confused::confused::confused:

My head is spinning. I’m absolutely terrible when it comes to making these sorts of purchases because I get so bogged down in weighing the different possibilities and my budget is so incredibly limited. (I got inspired initially while looking for a used TV for my girlfriend and coming across an ad for the SL).

Eonwe, nothing negative at all in your posts, and I never feel comfortable doing…well, almost anything without consulting at least one advocate of the devil. Honestly, I can’t disagree with your reasoning at all. I currently work with a rather simple set up - initially just a guitar and a multi-effects processor, but now with a Korg wavedrum and microkorg synth. While I love new stuff, I also hate clutter (more cables, more buttons and knobs, not to mention my dramatic shortage of power outlets). I’d certainly be happier with something I could be playing with the single flip of a switch.

From some searching though, the Privias (great reviews BTW. I’ve always associated Casio with amateur-level instruments, or even toys. That is how they’ve been perceived historically, no?) are mostly out of my range. I see a lot of them going for 6-700 EU (I’m in Germany btw) and beyond… BUT, I did also just see a local seller offering a Privia PX-100 for 250, so I sent him an email. If it’s still available I’m leaning towards going that route. (unless a devil’s advocate has something to add :wink: ).

I would need a stand for the SL, and a quite durable one at that, as from all accounts this is quite a heavy piece, but I probably have most of the other accessories covered (and he’s selling it with a MIDI to USB converter. So awesome that that exists now!)… well, except the sound module. But I do have a full version of Ableton and some other software which would cover me at home.

16

Hope the Korg is treating you well :wink: I remember playing briefly with your SH-32 a couple of summers ago. Lots of fun.

I had the fortune of being at picnic a few months ago with an Ableton product developer here in Berlin. As a benefit of the job he gets I think 2 full software packages a year for the ridiculous price of around 30 bucks. So I jumped up and said “ME ME ME!”. Well, not exactly, but we chatted and I got it (I got both PC and MAC versions, which is what initially inspired my search for a mac book pro. None of my current windows machines are powerful enough, and I’m tired of hearing how easy it is to do sound recording and editing and stuff on a mac compared with a PC).

(pulykamell, any experience/opinions on Ableton’s sounds?)

Oh, and I actually do own an Android tablet (Samsung galaxy). I also have seen people perform with them as synth instruments (guitar pickups pick up the sound to a surprising degree), but as a sound source for a MIDI controller? How would that work?

17

That 6-700 EU price seems to match with the US prices for new units (depending on the model); but I’m sure that markets and costs are different there than here. If you can get the PX-100 for 250, and it’s in good shape, I’d go for that (does it come with its stand?).

Yeah, the SL is pretty heavy (one of the schools I work at has one), but it is a nice-feeling keybed. And Ableton will cover you for playing at home, if you don’t mind doing the piano/converter/computer hook-up every time. It’d just be more of a hastle.
And regarding Casio, yeah, they were kind of out of the minds of most serious/professional players, and then they came out with the Privia line that filled a niche that none of the other major manufacturers had filled; that of a reasonably-priced, weighted 88-key instrument that was an all-in-one, and didn’t sound or feel half-bad (Roland has their FP line, but at a much higher price-point). A lot of gigging players who just wanted a decent piano without bells and whistles, and was light and easy to carry to gigs, started flocking to the Privias. (Let me add here, that I do not work for Casio; I feel like I’m giving the hard sell on their pianos, but it’s just that they really seem like the right tool for this job).

Unfortunately, their success has enabled them to up the price on their boards, so they are a bit more expensive today than they were a few years ago.
Either way you go, good luck!

18

Somewhat expensive, but modern solution: A used iPad ($200-$250 for 1st gen) plus an Alesis IO Dock ($150), plus a synth/sample playback app (from “free” to $50 or so).

Cheaper solution: A used iPod Touch (less than $100 for a 3rd generation or higher), an IK Multimedia iRig MIDI interface ($56), plus a synth/sample playback app (from “free” to $50 or so).

Cheapest solution: A used Windows laptop ($50 at the Salvation Arny/Goodwill), a USB MIDI interface ($35), and free VSTi plugins all over the web, many of which sound quite good.

19

Yeah…it’s a toy right up your alley. Turn knobs, press buttons, real time changes in sound. While I’m currently not actively gigging (I’m in zero bands at the moment) the korg is always great when I need to sit and do some keyboard based things. These days, that’s learning kids songs.

Ableton has a bunch of nice sounds in the free to cheap range. The nice thing about a program like Live is your ability to upgrade…and virtural sounds just keep getting better. I have the package of orchestral sounds and I’m pretty impressed with how non-synthetic they sound. Perhaps when I tackle AndyPolley’s 1st Symphony, I’ll get to show them off. *

I can’t speak for the android, but if you have an iPad & it’s USB adapter (Camera Connector Kit) & a USB to midi adapter, then you’re in business with any midi compatible app. The Alesis dock in mikews99’s post is a better, more integrated solution. Of course, there are also things like this, which, when they start making them better, is probably the future of hobby synth players like myself.

And good luck! Keep us posted on what you learn and/or decide.

*While I’ll never compose anything that will really show them off, I was working on covering Pink Floyd’s “When the Tigers Broke Free” and the gentle, yet powerful horn section I built sounded quite authentic. When I finish my complete re-recording of “The Final Cut” (it’ll be a gift to Howie) I’ll let you hear it.

20

Damn! I missed that Privia PX-100. I called this morning but another buyer was already on the way. And now I have to admit I’m kinda soured on the SL. Gotta still respond to that guy though, but I think I’m gonna hold out for another Privia. Devil has good advocates here. :wink: