I was told once that giant dogs (Great Danes, St. Bernards, etc) do very well in smaller places. I’m not talking 1BR apts. I have a three story 2.5BR townhouse and would like to get a Great Dane. A woman who runs a very notable rescue for giant dogs told me this once, but everything I can find in print or on the web states that giant dogs need space to run around and must have a yard. So, what’s the straight dope?
The reason I need printed material, is the homeowner’s association has a size requirement. But I think they are afraid of large dogs who are usually loud, rambunctious, and otherwise hard to control in small places. I can argue that these dogs are generally well behaved and as a breed, don’t make the same amount of noise as one would expect.
Now I’m starting to ramble, but I think I already got my point across so I’ll stop.
Thanks for the help SDMB.
BTW, I’ve been lurking around here for a few months now, and this is my first post, so I hope I did it right.
I live in a 2 BR apartment, <900 sq ft, with a dog that’s classified as a “giant breed.”
If you’re willing to meet the dogs excercise needs (which is harder to do in a place without a big yard), there’s no reason why a dog wouldn’t be fine in pretty much any sized living space. The amount of excercise necessary depends on the dog. I consistently run at least 10 miles a week with my dog, take her on walks and outings whenever possible, and try and get to the dog park for some off-leash romping every week or two. She’s in fine health, and I’ve been told she’s in good shape, muscle-wise (I show her, so I’ve certainly gotten other peoples opinions on her condition…)
I think the most important factor in how well a dog lives is how much time it gets to spend with its owner. If you play with it, do some obedience work with it, excercise it, and reguarly tell it how wonderful it is, you could live with a very happy big dog in studio apartment.
This is not a very easy question to answer as there are many possible variants.
IMO and IME, I have known great danes to do well in smaller surroundings if the owner(s) work at meeting daily necessities adequately.
Having a private and fenced backyard for your dog is always best but one can still have large or giant breeds without one IF they take good care of exercising the dog properly. This means a lengthy exercise run plus other outings for business. The length of the exercise run depends on which breed and the individual dog, some need hours while others are content with a few minutes.
Great danes usually don’t require especially long exercise runs or extremely active ones but as all dogs do, they need them on a daily basis. Intensity and length will be more important in the first two years as pups but will taper off on its own after that.
Otherwise, great danes tend to be calm dogs at home and many are known to be couch potatoes. If the daily exercise runs and other many outings aren’t a problem for you (be sure, it takes a lot of time and energy) then you have to consider what living with a giant dog is like. Although a great dane isn’t nervous or a particularly excited dog, like with any other breed they can and do get rambuncious at times and excited. With a very tall 130+lbs dog, that can displace many things and people, lol! Your home environment has to be completely dog proofed at pretty much all heights, no breakables anywhere, etc. Just the tail wagging will break a ton of stuff and leave you with nice marks on your thighs. Then you have to think of the drooling (all big dogs do), the amount this beast will eat and that you will have to pick up.
If you are truly ready for the commitment, responsibility and sacrifying a good part of your day every day, not to mention a good load of money, then go for it.
My 2 cents,
MC
P.S.: If you are not looking for a protection dog, I would suggest looking into rescuing a retired greyhound. They are wonderful dogs with great temperments and are very affectionate. I’ve absolutely loved the experience and recommend it to all that are considering adopting a dog into their family.
If your “excercise runs” involve the dog actually running non-stop on a lead (i.e., you take it running with you or let it run alongside a bike), then you shouldn’t run it like that every day. Dogs need days off to recover, just like people. If you’re following a running training program that includes regular days off, that would probably work for your dog too, if you slowly work the dog into it. Running a dog like that every day or a dog that isn’t in shape yet risks injuring the dog–one book I have that covers conditioning a dog for show recommends every other day as being optimal.
If your talking about off-leash romping, then every day is fine…
Also, it’s frequently advised that dogs shouldn’t be run extensively (again, on-leash running for long periods) until their bones have stopped growing. This can be up to 2 years for the big breeds. Try off-leash romps (in someone elses yard or a dog park), tug-of-war games inside the house (if your dog is coordinated enough to avoid knocking stuff over), flexi leads (AWAY from other people and dogs), etc.
I heartily second this suggestion. Save a greyhound!
This is just my experience, not a definitive answer to the OP. We have an American Mastiff (info here). She gets exercise in the form of nightly one-to-two mile walks with my husband. About twice a week, she gets “off-leash” time in a quiet park nearby where she will happily chase a Kong or a laserlight beam for about 10 minutes before she flops to the ground and refuses to run anymore. She spends most of her time lying around the house (and when she lies around the house… ) and is not terribly active. She’s in excellent health.
Same was true for our hypothyroid Doberman (134 pounds) and our Giant Schnauzer/Dane mix (126 pounds). A lot of big dogs are pretty lazy and slow moving. Newfoundlands can get a bit rowdy, especially if there’s water nearby, and Danes (as well as Mastiffs) can do a huge amount of damage with their tails. Again, this is just my observation/experience.
My Danes could not go up or down stairs. Something about their body length makes it very hard for them, I guess. I’ve heard this from other Dane owners as well. If you have a 3 story house, your dog may be limited to the ground floor.
Also, most dogs are going to bark sometimes. When a big dog (or two at the same time) barks it can rattle the windows! (yes, my neighboors hate me)
Medical bills are higher with giant breeds. Many medicine doses are based on weight, so you’ll be paying several times more for Heart worm meds and flea preventatives, as well as any antibiotics that might be needed.
When a young Dane gets bored and lonely, your sofa is toast. I came home one day to find mine torn down to the plywood framing. You’ll need a very large, very sturdy kennel.
My big dogs’ favorite thing to do was to pile into bed with me and watch movies while snacking on cheese and crackers. They don’t need a big house, just a lot of love (and mattress space).
I know I’m sounding pretty negative but I thought you’d appreciate hearing some of the “cons”
I love Danes, they are usually gentle, low energy, lover-lap dogs. But they ARE dogs, and will do doggy things in a very big way.
You’re not gonna exercise the dog in the apt anyway, are you? It wouldn’t be a problem living with a giant breed even in a tiny studio apt. Dogs are very adaptable. However, owning a dog takes up time, and the time you have to spend is directly proportional to the amount of time the dog can use by itself to get exercise, play ASF, i.e. Living in a studio with a giant dog, will force you to spend a lot of time working with your dog. If you have a back yard, the amount of time you have to spend will go down, but never vanish.
[rant mode]
I don’t understand people who get a dog whose sole existence will be running around in tha backyard, yapping all the time. I can see two reasons for getting a dog:
Working dog (hunt, guard, protection, guide dogs, ASF)
Companion/pet.
If it’s a working dog, then it will have a meaningful life.
If it’s a pet, it shouldn’t be left alone, too much. Don’t give in to kids who nag that they want a dog and leave it in the backyard. Dogs take up time, space, make your house dirtier and cost money (I’d say just owning a giant breed will run to at least $200/mo.)
Finally - buy a dog for its characteristics, never its looks.
[/rant mode]
I have a house with a small fenced yard. I injured my foot last spring, and co-incidentally put on a lot of weight in the course of 2004 (so the foot never really fully healed), so I don’t generally take Austen for walks. But she doesn’t seem to mind at all. Of course, I got mine as a rescue, and I very deliberately chose one who was older (5 or 6, which is getting up there for a giant) and more mellow - I love dogs, but don’t enjoy exercise!
Austen is total wuss - afraid of almost any new living thing (although she stalks house flies with great trepidity!). Unfortunately (in some repsects), her way of dealing with this is to bark ferociously at the object of her fear. This is good, in that she comes across as a very scary dog to any would-be robbers. It’s bad in that it truly can rattle the windows, and probably annoys the neighbors. That’s going to be a danger in any dog, and you can’t judge by their initial behavior. Some dogs get very quiet when plopped into a new situation, and then as the newness wears off, they resume their more natural behavior.
Austen has never been in the least destructive (although NEVER leave any food unattended on a surface lower than 4 feet! She ate an entire stick of butter IN the wrapper once!), but DO make sure that your fragile Christmas tree ornaments are high on the tree - the tail is dangerous!
And they’re VERY cute! While I actually prefer Mastiffs, I found it too hard to get a rescue - there just weren’t any available. Rescue Danes are available in large numbers. The advantages there are that the dog is usually house-trained, and the fosterers have gotten to KNOW the dog - they can hook you up with a dog who suits your personality and lifestyle. I don’t know where you live, but if it’s anywhere in the mid-Atlantic region, here’s a website: Mid-Atlantic Great Dane Rescue League
Thanks gang. There’s a lot of information above, but I’ve heard a lot of it before. Unfortunately it only adds to the arguments, “My friends say…” and “Experts tell me…” and not anything in print to show.
As for the greyhound argument, I’ve heard they don’t do so well on stairs, and I’ve got 2 sets of them. This is the first I’ve heard that Danes have trouble with stairs also, so I’ll have to look into that. If that’s the case, then that’ll be the end of that. (danes, not dogs)
Someone also mentioned couch dangers, which worries me, but not as much as my hockey gear that probably smells a lot like me. I would think a dog would go right after that stuff. Time to buy a table for it
RE: greyhounds and stairs, a rescued racing dog will have never seen stairs, but that dosen’t mean they can’t master them. The guy I’m dating lives with a friend who has two rescued greyhounds and a two story house, and while they mostly live downstairs that’s because they’re “supposed” to be there, not up on the carpet upstairs. They have no problem making a run for the bedrooms when they’re feeling bitchy (no pun intended). I asked their owner about it, having heard that they can’t do stairs, and he said in the beginning they were scared of them but they taught themselves trying to follow him up to bed at night. They’re cool dogs (but they do lay around the house, as it were).
Metacom: I’m sorry if I may have been unclear with the description of exercise runs, I certainly would never recommend constant running as a means to exercise your dog. I said it that way because many dog owners I’ve crossed think that taking the dog for a walk around the block for just a few minutes is a enough exercise in a day.
IMO a good exercise run is as you mentionned, an unleashed romp (in a safe and appropriate area, of course), or a decent walk (45min+). Playing fetch and making games out of play and exercise time are also other great way to train your pooch at the same time.
Zsofia: Big ditto on the greyhound/stair issue, it’s just because they have never seen them or tried them. They might be skittish at first about trying them but once they have a bit of practice, they go up and down just fine.
FlightlessBird: Unfortunately, I doubt you’ll find much hard data on large breeds doing well in smaller spaces, if any. Even if you did, I’d be impressed that it would sway the homeowner’s association rules…
Keep looking up other dog breeds and ask around about those you click on most in regards to: exercise needs, sociability/temperment, trainability, etc. I’m sure there are other breeds that would be great additions to your family.
I’m not a Great Dane guy but I had an old english mastiff at one time. A lot of the big dogs amazingly don’t like that much exercise, and tend towards laziness. It’s suggested for example that you force your mastiff to exercise at least every other day eventhough most of them would be happier laying on the ground (or couch as they tend to try and be lap dogs) 24/7.
I think the dogs that are hardest to keep in a small apartment/city environment are collies and that type, as these are traditionally animals that would range far and wide over pastures and like to run around a large area for long periods.
She has no problem at all with stairs. And she is very happy healthy with daily running around the yard (with my 2 other big dogs) and occassional walks on a leash. But she prefers to spend the vast majority of her time on the couch or a bed.
The only caveat I can think of is the expense of the dog food. Big dogs require more food.
I know it’s still nothing in print, just my 2 cents…
Owner of four Great Danes checking in (well, currently, one, but lifetime)… FlightlessBird, I’ll ask my wife tomorrow where she came by this information when deciding on a Dane, but Danes in particular are famous for being particularly good as apartment dogs. They need some off leash time for the dreaded zoomies, but other than that their idea of a rough day is moving from the couch to the chair. Since you are considering a Dane in particular, you might consider subscribing to the Great Dane Mailing List (gdml) and asking them for cites as to the apartment-worthiness of Danes. You might want to join the list simply for the interesting stories about Danes…
Well, shucks. If our experiences ain’t good enough for you, try and pick up “The Right Dog For You.” It’s my favorite breed-selection book (and the favorite of plenty of others, as well). The author is far from politically correct, and offers candid opinions on the requirements of each dog breed. He gives the breeds both an “indoor activity level” and an “outdoor activity level” score, among other criteria. He discusses living quarters and requirements, etc. It’s useful to anyone considering a purebred, but it would be especially useful to someone looking for a specific set of criteria, such as yourself.
Gawrsh! Hoo’da thunk there’d be so many Dane lovers here? Great to see you guys!
My last Dane lived with me in small apartments, then a small house, for the last six years of her life. The first three of them, we did lots of walking around campus. The last three, she’d had her seventh birthday, and wasn’t that interested in exercise anymore - at least not daily.
Lollypop didn’t have any problem dealing with stairs, nor did my first Danes, when I lived in a flat, and the basement was their indoor exercise space. I’d think any Dane with an owner patient enough to let them figure out steps would have no problem. Pups might have a bigger problem, but it should be temporary. The only exception would be a dog with arthritis or hip dysplasia. In the OP’s shoes, I’d want a hip X-ray (as part of a thorough physical) on any dog I was seriously considering. If you got a pup, I’d want the parents’ hips to be OFA certified. It could save you lots of hassle and expense, and the dog lots of pain. Actually, this is a pretty good idea with any large or giant breed that is expected to deal with >4 steps daily.
As for the expense of dog food, an adult Dane (over two years minimum) eats far less than an adult German Shepherd. The Dane has a lower soft-to-hard tissue ratio than the GS (much less Mastiffs, Saints, Newfies, etc.). I’m assuming you understand the importance of high quality food, FlightlessBird?
Several people have suggested a rescue Greyhound. Now I think they’re probably the next-neatest dogs after Danes, but … they have a much higher need for exercise. Not daily, but they should have the chance to run around like a maniac in a large (say, >2 acres, or alternatively, a racetrack), fenced (6’ or higher, preferably 8’) area at least once or twice a week. I remind y’all that these are retired racing dogs, right? :dubious:
I also had Salukis in the middle of my 20 years of Danes, and I can attest that, though Salukis are the premier couch potatoes of dogdom (all the gazehound breeds contend for this title), they need regular, serious exercise. And all of the gazehounds (Danes are really a member of this group, no matter what anyone says to the contrary) can, in decent health and “condition,” rise up and float over higher fences/obstacles - 9’ is not unusual, excluding Irish Wolfhounds and Danes (but not all of them!) - than you’d dream, until the day you see one do it. :eek:
For more information about Danes and (other) gazehounds: The king of dogs (not my opinion alone; Alexander Pope wrote a poem for the Prince of Wales’s Dane* that demonsrates both their (sometimes) enormous dignity and their (sometimes) aloofness) American Sighthound Field Association I have serious problems with some of the inclusions here, but it’s a list. <shrug> IMO, sighthounds are breeds exclusively or primarily descended from the ancient (~6,000 y.a.) Saluki-like desert hunting dogs. They all have that same outline, and at least some dogs of all those breeds are capable of the true extended gallop (double-hinged looking) that the courser uses when in pursuit of game (or a lure). <sniff, sneer>
*I am His Highness’ dog at Pew;
Pray tell me, Sir, whose dog are you?
) and is not terribly active. She’s in excellent health.
