Gina Carano is ignorant AF, but cancel culture is really getting ridiculous

Wait. Are you literally the same person who spent the last four years screaming from the rooftop that literally everything that happened was the sign of the coming apocalypse? That democrats and progressives alike were living with their heads in the sand, unwilling to see things for the horrors they truly were? That Republicans one and all were driving us the shortest route to disaster, and that anyone who wanted to stop and try to bridge the gap to see the humanity of everyone, including Republicans, was signing the death warrant of Democracy and possibly society as we know it?

And now, today, cancel culture has gone too far? Corporate entities should never make decisions based on something someone said in the past or present? That “we don’t associate with evil” is “lazy thinking”?

What planet are you on?

She had 10 years to denounce it.

If she only denounces it after being called out for it, it is hard to assume sincerity on her part.

Poor unstable soul triggered? I don’t have your mental status in a database so I hope that’s not too reprehensible.

When the actions are the result of an online mob that randomly directs the targets of their hypocritical outrage it does contradict the concept of due process and fundamental freedoms.

Suck up to the right constituency and you can get away with practically anything. Be the wrong skin color and you can’t make a burrito. It’s arbitrary, disproportionate, irrational, and dangerous.

There really ought to be a statute of limitations for something like this. If I understand it correctly, freshman in college or not, she was still a minor. But there ought to be a statute of limitations for adults, too. I don’t think a person is obligated to grovel or apologize for every misstatement, every bad thought, every time they were thoughtless years in the distant past.

FFS, how far do we want to go back?

Okay, so if the Seuss estate had been pressured by right wing mobs into republishing their books that they had chosen to no longer publish, I assume that that would be an example of what you are talking about?

Like trump did?

What color is that? Can’t be white, as I’m white, and I’ve made quite a number of burritos.

I hope that you don’t actually take yourself seriously. If you do, then I pity you for the world that you think that you live in.

To follow up some things I’ve been saying before in a broader view, one thing that ISTM has to be recognized and accepted about the modern anti-racism movement—like the #MeToo anti-sexism movement that emerged a bit earlier—is that it’s bound to be messy. Some people are going to over-react to some issues while others under-react, and there are always going to be lots of arguments about whether a particular reaction has “gone too far” and what are reasonable “consequences”.

And of course conservatives are naturally going to be delighted about these divisions, just as they’re delighted when #MeToo revelations of sexual misconduct take down liberal politicians like Al Franken and Andrew Cuomo. As recently pointed out in a concurrent thread, conservatives are going all-in on melodramatically exaggerating the “dangers” of “wokeness” and “cancel culture”, in order to distract from the fact that they themselves have no governing agenda and no realistic way to appeal to majorities of the public on actual policy.

So instead, conservative idiots will try to compare anti-racism to “the inquisition, the reign of terror, or Maoism/Stalinism” and what not, and more subtle conservative propagandists will modify that rhetoric to chin-stroking concern trolling. But ultimately, as with all the conservative concern trolling about the #MeToo movement “going too far”, they’re not really worried about potential “censorship” and “tribalism” and “oppression”: that’s just what they say, as noted above, to distract attention from their own lack of any real leadership policy.

What they’re really worried about is the prospect of people taking seriously the importance of anti-bigotry principles and the reality of systemic bigotry. After all, conservative white-supremacism has done pretty well so far out of the “post-Jim Crow compromise” by making a few concessions while still retaining its near-monopoly on political and cultural power. As Republican strategist Lee Atwater noted in 1981, “By 1968 you can’t say n*****—that hurts you, backfires”. So they give up openly using the most extreme racial slurs, and accept the presence of occasional minorities and women in a few positions of power.

And in return, the overall power disparities and systemic bigotry in society remain largely unchanged so privileged groups can continue to reap the benefits of them. And nothing’s allowed to be called “racism” unless it’s openly using the n-word, or “sexism” unless it’s explicitly barring women from jobs, and so forth. Pretty sweet deal for white-supremacist conservatism, overall.

But if people actually start taking equality and anti-racism seriously, that has the potential to drastically undermine the “post-Jim Crow compromise”. If people become really unwilling to accept, for example, police officers murdering unarmed black people, and demonization of Latinx migrants, and constant harassment of women, and ubiquitous racist attitudes in the comfort of “private” environments, and massive overrepresentation of straight white men in almost all leadership positions, then white-supremacist conservatism starts to face serious challenges to its power.

So that’s the other reason that conservatives have to keep doomsquawking about the alleged totalitarian terrors of “wokeness” and “cancel culture”. Because conservatism survives largely on cultural backlash: on fears that true repudiation of systemic bigotry will constitute “going too far” and “taking our country away from us” and “destroying America” and “communism”. The more people can be intimidated into just shutting up about racism, sexism and other forms of bigotry, the more hold on power conservatism can retain.

And that, to me, is another important reason why we shouldn’t let conservatives dictate to us what we may or may not criticize, and why we should stick with anti-bigotry principles even when some of the controversies they engender get messy. Because the alternative is just staying stuck in the “post-Jim Crow compromise” that is so convenient for white-supremacist conservatism and so shitty for so many other people.

For any job? I mean, I wouldn’t think the NAACP would want a former Klan grandmaster to head them up. Isn’t is possible that someone with racist tweets in her background that she did nothing about until called on them is not the right person for Teen Vogue?

Hey, call me names all day long, but don’t accuse of taking some Nazi action like book burning. I’m not accusing you of murder or raping babies or burning books.

Anyway, this is becoming the octoputz show, once again, so I’m out.

Why? This isn’t a criminal matter. She’s not in danger of losing life or liberty. She is only in danger of not getting rewarded with a job that thousands of others would love to have.

I don’t either. And no one has to.

You keep avoiding the issue that she had plenty of time to acknowledge how wrong the comments were that she chose to make public, and instead engage in hyperbolic hysteria.

Is there something in your past that you are afraid will come back and bite you?

Great post, but I just have to say, I love this term!

I wasn’t using that term in a criminal sense; I’m saying there comes a point where what people said in the past should stay in the past, even it it’s on a medium that can show it in the present.

I didn’t avoid anything. You, on the other hand, fail to acknowledge that she “chose” to make it public when she didn’t have the mind of an adult. She probably forgot about them, so from her perspective, why would she even care? I mean, yeah, I’ll concede, she probably should have made more of an effort to prune her social media - she had the money to hire professionals to do that, no doubt. That’s her mistake, but that’s not a character flaw and that’s not a sign she’s a racist.

You can make some academic arguments for Conde Nast’s ‘business decision’ - never said you couldn’t, and some good ones have been made on this thread. I just fundamentally don’t believe that you can lead to enhanced social awareness (‘wokeness’) and force contrition by beating someone over the head with past tweets. I would have said the same even if McCammond were Asian and her teachers were from Africa.

It is only relevant in a criminal sense.

The reason for having a statute of limitations isn’t to let people get away with things if they manage to wait them out long enough, it is because exonerating evidence will be harder to come up with given an excessive amount of time.

I don’t think that time passing alone is enough to show that someone has changed. They need to actually show that they have changed.

One of the best ways to show that you have changed is to repudiate the stupid things that you have said in the past. Covering them up, or demanding that everyone ignore them does not.

And yet, you don’t respond at all to the point. So, maybe not avoiding, just ignoring. What reason do you think, she spent 10 years with these hateful comments, and never bothered to go back and say, “I was wrong to say those things.”

It was also public when she was an adult. And the year after that, the year after that.

Why do you think that she forgot about them? They were on her feed, in public. She should probably care if she has a desire to become an influential figure in media.

No, her posts were a sign that she was a racist. Her lack of doing anything about those posts over the last 10 years is a sign that she hasn’t changed.

So one of the arguments is that she left the tweets up for 10 years and never apologized for them – which turns out not to be true at all.

Ms. McCammond had apologized for the tweets in 2019 and deleted them. Screenshots of the tweets were recirculated on social media after her hiring at Teen Vogue was announced on March 5.

One of the problems I have with social justice on social media is that social justice can be meted out again and again and again. You can make a mistake in real time, it gets recorded, and it doesn’t matter what the context is, and it doesn’t matter even if you later apologize. What seems to be the bottom line is that some people just aren’t going to be satisfied until they get their pound of flesh to take home with them.

I notice you never use McCarthyism as an example in these unhinged rants. Why is that?

It’s original sin. There is no atonement.

Because, McCarthy didn’t have death camps.

“The arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice.”

–MLK

But it doesn’t bend out of boredom or thinning or its own weight or geometric genetic predisposition.

It bends because people of conscience – derisively referred to as “woke” or “SJW --” speak up and act out. They create the weight at the end of that metaphorical branch that drags it toward justice.

They opposed slavery, Jim Crow, homophobia, male chauvinism, sexism, abject repression of women’s rights, the Military-Industrial Complex, and a dozen or a score or a gross of other societal injustices.

They have – if you follow the arc of the moral universe – been on the right side of every major social issue since about 1776.

They also understand that the trunk of the tree is much harder to bend than the leaves, the stems, and the thinner branches, so sometimes they have to start with things that seem trivial to many.

But they aren’t trivial. They’re the road toward the systemic, institutionalized, and deeply-entrenched stuff that – as @Kimstu so eloquently points out – must change for anything substantive to actually happen.

And for those who understand how you bend wood, or other materials that have a ‘memory’ (ie, a tendency to spring back): you have to bend them farther than the desired ultimate resting point because of the known tendency to try to retain its original shape.

That’s part of the American pendulum swing: shooting beyond your goal in the hopes of getting X% of the way to that goal in “this round.”

The dynamic tension that exists between the pro- and the anti- whatever movement factions probably serves some purpose in much the same way that people believe a divided government is best: it avoids tyranny.

But the arc of this moral universe will bend toward justice, and those with any real sense of history will understand which side will be judged favorably and which will be viewed with scorn and harsh judgment. It pretty much never changes.

So pick sides.

And pick wisely :wink:

Regardless of what one thinks is or is not moral, the universe and nature are amoral. If you think justice is the end state, how do you explain the rise of China? They are soon to be the world’s #1 economy and most productive power. You think that is a sign that the just are favored by destiny?

It’s good to speak up and act out; it’s unwise to give your own allies a bloody nose and a black eye. Activists don’t achieve justice on their own; they need allies and they need the support of many more people who may not necessarily want to act out or speak up but whose support is nevertheless important anyway.