Giuliani's first marriage was annulled. How about his second one?

[RTFirefly]

Rudy Giuliani, former mayor of New York City, and current Presidential candidate, is in his third marriage, by secular standards.

The standards of the Catholic Church, of course, are a different matter. His first marriage (using the civil count throughout) was annulled. How about his second marriage, to Donna Hanover?

Is his (current) marriage to Judith Nathan recognized by the Catholic Church? And if not, how does the Catholic Church regard his living in that relationship? Is he still a Catholic in good standing? Or is he regarded as willfully living in a state of ongoing sin, or some such?

Finally, does Giuliani currently self-identify as a Roman Catholic? My Googling here hasn’t been able to turn up anything. His official bio makes no mention.

[Captain_Amazing]

I don’t believe his second marriage was ever annulled, and he was married to his third wife in a civil ceremony (performed by Mayor Bloomberg), not a Catholic one.

[smiling_bandit]

@RTFirefly

Is his (current) marriage to Judith Nathan recognized by the Catholic Church? And if not, how does the Catholic Church regard his living in that relationship? Is he still a Catholic in good standing? Or is he regarded as willfully living in a state of ongoing sin, or some such?

More or less, yes. I believe he can still take communion, since it’s not a mortal sin, but it’s a pretty serious one in the eyes of the church, and amounts to constant adultery.

[RTFirefly]

@smiling bandit

More or less, yes. I believe he can still take communion, since it’s not a mortal sin, but it’s a pretty serious one in the eyes of the church, and amounts to constant adultery.

Here’s what Wikipedia has to say about mortal sin:

According to the beliefs of Roman Catholicism, a mortal sin is a sin that, unless confessed and absolved (or at least sacramental confession is willed if not available), condemns a person’s soul to Hell after death.

In all Catholic moral theology, a mortal sin, as distinct from a venial sin, must meet all of the following conditions:

1. its subject must be ‘grave matter’;
2. it must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense;
3. it must be committed with deliberate and complete consent.

<snip>

Some things considered by the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church to be ‘grave matters’ include adultery, murder, lust (including masturbation), willfully missing mass on Sunday, perjury, incredulity, and the use of contraceptives.

Looks like adultery is mortal after all, especially in this case where #2 and #3 are in no doubt.

So people who’ve committed mortal sins can’t take communion in the RCC until they’ve confessed and repented?

[Loach]

I may be misremembering completely. I believe there were no children from the first marriage. You might remember Andrew Giuliani from when he was a little brat (he is rising through the ranks of amateur golf BTW). Having children in a marriage makes it difficult to get an annullment.

[RTFirefly]

@Loach

I may be misremembering completely. I believe there were no children from the first marriage. You might remember Andrew Giuliani from when he was a little brat (he is rising through the ranks of amateur golf BTW). Having children in a marriage makes it difficult to get an annullment.

You remember correctly - no children from the first marriage, two kids with Donna Hanover.

[Mr.Moto]

There are lots of Catholics who attend Mass but do not take communion for whatever reason. He is likely one of these.

[gigi]

@RTFirefly

So people who’ve committed mortal sins can’t take communion in the RCC until they’ve confessed and repented?

Correct. Only Catholics and certain Orthodox folks can receive communion at all, and the Catholics have to be in good standing, with no impediment to the grace of the sacrament. I guess the Orthodox would too, but I’m not familiar with their take on good standing.

I also had no idea Guiliani was on his third marriage…

[Annie-Xmas]

Yes, the whole Rudy-Judy-Donna soap opera was abruptly cancelled on 9/11/2001. Donna Hanover has remarried too, to the man that was her college roommate’s boyfriend.