Still, same same.
Are you breaking the Forum rules on purpose?
Engage the discussion or ignore the discussion, but do not suggest that another poster is lacking mental facultiers outside The BBQ Pit.
[ /Moderating ]
If they do, then that’s fine. I’ve said it before, several times, and I’m sure I’ll have to repeat it again. If someone goes to war to protect the freedoms of his homeland, that’s just fine.
But you will acknowledge that at least some people are in it for financial gain.
And in fact, in the original thread, that was what certain people advocated.
Again, that’s not what I think, and directly contrary to what I have said.
To repeat. The other side hires professional soldiers, who are willing to fight any war they are told to. that means we have to hire them as well.
But should I actually respect the ones who do it?
This is a question I have asked several times and which nobody will answer.
Should I respect those soldiers hired by the other side ? Are they doing something good and noble by serving their country?
Should I thank the Japanese pilots at Pearl Harbor? Should I respect them? Are they good people for serving their country?
Oops, very sorry tomndebb My mistake, I forgot which forum I was in.
This statement, along with the following statement that makes the accusation that a particuolar poster would lie, is so close to the edge of violating the rules, here, that I almost closed this thread.
Given the possibility that subsequent discussion may actually be fruitful, I am leaving the thread open, for now, but you would have been much better off using neutral hypotheticals rather than attacking other posters with claims that they have engaged or would engage in particular behavior simply because that is what you choose to believe.
You have no evidence that either of the posters would actually violate their own sense of ethics in order to make their choices. The fact that they perceive the situation differently than you do indicates why this might be a useful discussion–hammering out where the lines of ethics are drawn among people of widely differing sensibilities.
Using specific examples of actual posters and then labeling them bad by some set of rules that you do not even take the time to set forth for our consideration is only little more than launching personal attacks.
The rest of this thread had better stay in the realm of the hypothetical. If you wish to set forth hypothetical examples of decisions that you would fault–along with ethical bases for your choices, that is fine. If you render more judgments against other posters based on your personal emotions, unsupported by evidence, this thread will end.
[ /Moderating ]
I stand by the OP I wrote.
I will not accept your twisting my opinion.
Then answer this one.
The japanese pilots who served their country followed orders and bombed Pearl Harbor.
Should I respect them for serving in the military? Ought I to thank them for what they did? Did they do something good, or something bad?
Microsoft didn’t hire me either.
Should I respect them for serving in the military? Yes. For the most part, they served with honor.
Ought I to thank them for what they did? Of course not. At the time, they were the enemy. What makes you think you should thank an enemy?
Did they do something good, or something bad? Entirely depends on your perspective and time-scale.
But how are they to prevent all other organizations from doing it?
Should you thank them for what they did? That’s a peculiar question to pose. Unless you lived in Hirohito’s Japan (WWII-era), of course.
Otherwise, they weren’t doing it for you. No need to thank them.
It’s not necessary for Peter Morris or other individuals to like the military, any more than it necessary for all individuals to like science or the legal system or anything else they may directly or indirectly benefit from.
No, it’s not a peculiar question. It’s the entire point of the thread.
Professional soldiers/ sailors/ airmen - are they good people? Those among them who fight for pay, anyway.
Was the attack on Pearl Harbor morally justified ? Were the pilots good people for doing it?
And, if in some hypothetical war, (not the current one but a hypothetical one) American or British servicemen did the same thing, would they be good people for doing it?
You assume that we benefit from the military.
Just suppose you had a magic wand. One wave of the wand, and ALL military people in every country will instantly resign. There will not be any military in any country ever again.
Would that be a net gain, or a net loss, do you think?
Yes.
If you’re Japanese, yes. If you’re American, no. If you’re neither, your call.
Again - if you’re Japanese, yes. If you’re American, no. For the rest, it’s your choice.
You’re welcome.
Just suppose we could look up and have food fall from the sky or we all had sun powered cars or a million other magic wand fantasies?
In the real world we could have saved 8 million lives if we stopped Hitler in Czechoslovakia. But instead of being a world power at the start of WWII we were training soldiers with toy guns. No magic wand then, no magic wand now.
If you were to ask a career military person how they feel about this thread they will tell you freedom of speech is worth fighting for. If the child in question objects to the war in Iraq then I would point out that it’s an all volunteer army and suggest a different path in life.
I can’t really add anything further that wasn’t already said by everyone else in this thread. I particularly agreed with Public Animal No. 9’s post; it was very well-put. There’s some very reasonable responses here if you were really interested in understanding something other than your black and white views.
But I will say with vehemence that you misconstrued SSG Schwartz’s comments and intentions in my thread. You’re implication that he is a liar because he is a recruiter whose job is to encourage young men and women sign up, is not only wrong, it’s despicable. What you don’t know is that SSG Schwartz discussed me by PM my son’s qualifications and potential for military service. He determined that at this time my son would probably not be qualified to join the Army. He also gave support with regard to alternatives for him if military service is not an option. It was quite clear that SSG Schwartz takes his job seriously and is not a quota-focused, lying manipulator as you implied. He wants to help potential recruits make informed, thoughtful decisions whether it be military service or something else. He’s a good guy. Since I’m not in the pit and I’ve already expressed my baser thoughts there, I’ll refrain from characterizing you. But next time you decide to disrespect specific individuals with false generalizations, you best get your facts straight. You simply do not have enough information to make a reasoned judgment of SSG Schwartz or any other military recruiter.
Straight Dope Message Board and your right to post on it
made possible by your friendly, proud, neighborhood military. Thank a Vet.
More proof, running like a torrent through this discussion, that the US plainly needs to divide its military into a defense force and a strictly separate offence force. The former so that people can serve in the honorable defense of their country. The latter so that the right wing has something to do.
What are you going on about? Defense against who? Yes Canada and Mexico are serious threats… I better buy another gun.
Brown Eyed Girl, your comments are welcome; the intensity with which you posted them, less so.
Sevastopol, let’s not hijack the thread with little digs at the current situation, couched in inflammatory language.
Everyone, let’s not let this thread get too personal or none of you will have an opportunity to express yourselves on this topic.
[ /Moderating ]