So, MGibson, bums aren’t people too?
Oh, and Loki, I WAS aware of the physiological effects of alcohol, and I DID mean it in the sense of the subjectively percieved warmth of the drinker. I was going to add that alcohol-induced unconsciousness at least allows one to sleep despite the temperature, but I thought that may be construed as inhumane!
If that’s a matter of concern, then you can always look for a 501©3 organization which allows public audits of its books. I’ve worked with several such organizations, and they typically have checks and balances in place to prevent the kind of abuse that you describe.
If someone asks me for money, I give because it is good for me to do so.
Hey, Hardwood Paneling, can I have some money?
**
No they’re not. Bums are actually hobgoblins, goblins, and gnomes disguised as humans. They’re put on this earth to play upon our sympathy and steal our treasure. :rolleyes:
Just because they’re human doesn’t mean I want to waste money on them so they can buy booze or drugs.
Marc
If I gave a friend $20 for a birthday and found out that she had spent it on heroine, I would be seriously pissed and would definitely give a gift certificate to Target next time.
If this friend were an addict and I thought there was a good chance she would spend it on crack or something, I would never slip her a $20 in the first place.
So, to an extent I would place conditions on even what a ‘gift’ can be spent on.
So, assuming that we are suitably assured that the homeless person will spend our donation on food, not booze or drugs or anything else that we happen to consider improper, should we not be insisting that they spend that donation on food that will offer the maximum nutritive benefit per unit cost? I mean, what if we give them money and they blow it on smoked salmon or lobster; should we be peeved about that too?
Try it sometime. I had a guy in Seattle (they have a lot of panhandlers there for some reason) ask me for money for food. I happened to be going to lunch at the time, and being a right of center guy, I enjoy helping people out. So, I said ‘Hey, I’m going to lunch right now, come on along, I’ll buy…’ The glow sort of left his eyes and he declined. No money for that guy, I might add.
Another guy (maybe they have after action reviews at the end of the day or something) a couple days later tried the honesty approach.
“Got any spare change? I won’t lie to you, I wanna buy a bottle.” His honesty was so refreshing, I ended up giving him a buck or something.
That’s quite different from my experience of homeless people; most often I come across them selling The Big Issue (a magazine published specifically for homeless people to sell to generate income; it’s quite a good read and often includes articles written(donated) by celebrities and famous authors), anyway, they seem only too pleased to recieve food.
But it’s foolish to imagine that they have no needs beside food; they need money to live.
I would like to rephrase my question above; What good is done to the homeless by withholding money from them?
It’s entirely possible that when some homeless person asks you for money for food, and you reply “No, but I’ll buy you some food” and they then decline the offer, that they did so as a result of feeling insulted or patronised and had genuinely intended to buy food.
“No, but I’ll buy you some food” could very easily be understood to mean “I’m not giving money to you, because I think all homeless people are druggies, alcoholics and wasters”.
That’s a good point. For the homeless who are not con-artists, I guess I look at it in terms of “how am I helping?” If the few dollars I can spare goes towards the neccessary short-term survival aspects like food and warmth, fine. But what does it do to address the complex deeper hole they have found themselves in? Is this money going to get them off the street? Or will they still be there (or on some other street) a year from now? If I truly want to help these people, should I be investing my time and money more wisely?
The other side of the story is that I **hate ** being conned out of my money by someone who panhandles in lieu of getting a job. I believe that by giving money from able-bodied bums (who have the right to spend it any way they want) they learn that this is a viable alternative to getting a job and performing goods or services like the rest of the country. I also believe that a poor work ethic is a bad thing. I would assume the presence of bums drives down the property values of the business and homeowners where the bums choose to locate.
I’m sorry for sounding like a capitalist pig, but I have $18,000 in loans I am still paying off for the education that puts me in the position to be able to give to people who need it.
I was coming out of a grocery store one evening a few years ago and a guy came up to me and said his car broke down and he needed to get home but he didn’t have enough money for the long bus ride home. He even volunteered his phone number as an added assurance of his earnestness that he had every intention of paying me back.
"Why, " I thought to myself, “here is some poor fella who just got a spot of bad luck and I am not going to be an unfeeling jackass who thinks the worst of people, I’m going to help this guy out!”
He needed just a few dollars for fare, $5 just to be safe. I turned around to go to the ATM in the grocery store and told him to come along. When I got there, he said, could you make it $10?
I should have known right there. Actually I did. But at least I still had his number. So I gave this guy $10.
Do you think that phone number checked out?
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I don’t want to get burned again. I know there are people out there who need help, but God damn it, I can’t tell them from the people out there who feel that they can prey upon the sympathies of people and be a blight on the community rather than to contribute to the community.
So to answer your question, I believe deep down that giving little bits of money to people on the street keeps them there. 
I’m sure on a board of this variety, there are some posters who have been homeless inthe past. I would like to ask them if giving money directly to the homeless is the best option, or buying food for them is better, or even giving to non-denominational charities.
I’m honestly more concerned with what is better for the homeless, rather than my own feelings/prejudices/preferences.
When you beg for money, you’ve checked your dignity at the door. And if they are living in the gutter, I can guarantee you that they can affirm that a great deal of panhandlers are druggies, alcoholics and wasters and it is more than reasonable for a person to suspect it.
I have a hard time believing someone begging for food money would be concerned with such a thing.
Marc
I agree with Hardwood Panneling
It makes me feel good. That’s a very selfish attitude, but I don’t think the homeless person cares about that.
** LokiTheDog** If you were freezing your arse off in the streets and asked me for money: Sure, you can have some.
I’m not rich, I’m not even well-to-do, but I’m not a materialist either.
I was ‘homeless’ for a couple of years, but I was a squatter for the majority of this time so have a problem with describing myself as having been homeless, as it simply doesn’t feel that way. However, most of my friends during this period were similarly without stable living conditions, and the majority of people I knew who were begging, were doing so for their next fix and rough-sleeping as a choice, as they could not fit in with the (then fairly dranconian) rules of most shelters. There were, however, plently of places available to get at least one hot meal a day.
But even with all this, I occasionally cannot help giving money when asked, primarily because I do not feel comfortable making the implicit judgement behind offering food instead of cash but find it difficult to ignore another person’s misery. However, an ex of mine was a senior drugs worker with my city’s premier care-giving charity for the homeless - he once caught me giving £5 to a homeless guy, and I proceeded to get bitched out for the rest of the day about whether or not I felt good about giving the guy the money to buy his next fix, perhaps the one which could finally kill him. In my ex’s opinion, it is always better to ask when the person last ate, offer a cup of coffee, a cigarette if you smoke, a meal if you have the time to accompany them to a cafe, or to engage them in a little conversation about how their day has been, as apparently it is the cast-down eyes and refusal to even acknowledge the beggar’s existence which is the biggest kick-in-the-teeth to self-esteem. He advised me to refuse requests for money with eye contact, a smile, and ‘No, I’m afraid I can’t’, at the very least. Yes, it is condescending, but at least it’s not a refusal to acknowledge your very existence.
In his opinion, it is always the best option to refuse requests for money, to offer food or try to chat awhile, and instead make sure to remember and contribute the money to a homeless charity, as with enough resources behind them they can do so much more than offer a place to sleep and food for a day. They can offer retraining and resocialisation, trying to figure out how to best help the person overcome the barriers which prevent them ‘fitting in’ and keeping to a schedule. They can fight bogus statistics and public condemnation - my city’s latest report on rough sleepers in the area only included those people actually seen to be sleeping. If you were in a doorway, wrapping in blankets with your few belongings around you, wet, miserable, perhaps sick or starving to death, but awake, then the report did not count you as a rough-sleeper, and so justified cutting the council funding for community homeless support projects. The charities can provide drug and/or alcohol rehab, and counselling or support to help provide a way out of the direction your life has gone in so far.
So as this is an issue that I am connected with, especially as in the past I have lost many homeless friends to serious heroin addiction, I set up a regular donation to three homeless charities. It is not much at all, as I can’t afford much, but it does make it easier to feel like less of a bastard everytime I refuse to hand out cash to someone obviously in need.
Yes, who are we to say that giving money to the homeless IS a good thing?
From purely a layman’s point of view, I can see a few reasons for being homeless:
A. Mentall illness.
B. Complete inability to get along with others in a family or workplace.
C. As a career. You would attempt to make a good income by begging, or at least find it to be easier than a real job.
D. Some sudden unforseen situation where your expenses exceed your income (or you lose your job) , and you run out of money. (Like, for example, the Great Depression.)
E. You have chosen a lifestyle with EXTREMELY high living expenses, and they are so costly, and so important to you, that they take priority over paying for food, clothing, and shelter. (Like serious drug addiction.)
Okay…
if it’s A, then there’s no argument about it, these people need help, from a group or agency that’s well-trained and qualified to give it. In our society, we generally agree that the rest of us will bear the financial burden for helping the mentally ill, with which I agree.
If it’s simply B, then too bad. Being socially inept isn’t an illness. Learn to get along with others, or suffer the consequences.
Same goes for C. I try my best to make positive contributions to society, and I have no respect or tolerance for others who would rather simply take.
D. Now, something like that would suck. If we give the guy nothing, he dies, which of course is bad. If we give him just enough money to match his living expenses, he’ll never make it out of homelessness. We SHOULD give him a temporary home (like 2-3 months), clean clothes, job placement assistance…if he can’t make it after that, he really qualifies as A, B, or C.
E. Unlike what kambuckta said, things like drugs, alcohol, Cadillacs, big car stereos, and model train sets are luxuries—not rights—you only have a right to EARN enough money to buy such luxuries. Most of us make food, shelter and clothing priorities, and consider those other items luxuries… if a homeless person decides to reverse those priorites, that’s his decision, but not one that I’ll support.
Anyway, what I’m getting at is, in my personal opinion, HELPING A HOMELESS PERSON JUST A LITTLE BIT, IS BAD! It only forces them to stay in their current unpleasant condition, and it also reinforces the idea that it’s good to be unproductive.
You should either help the homeless a lot, or not at all.
If I let a homeless guy stay at my house for a little while, buy him some clothes, give him a place to sleep and shower and eat, make him a nice resume on my computer, let him borrow one of my cars for job-hunting, take care of all his basic necesseties…he will have every opportunity to get a job, save money, and after a short time, move out of my place and into his own…I actually would consider doing this too.
If I see a homeless person and refuse to give him even a cent, he’s going to come to the conclusion that “this whole begging thing ain’t gonna work; I’d better try to just become productive instead.”
As much as I hate telemarketers calling my house, the people who are really at fault are the idiots who actually buy from them—without the idiots, telemarketers would simply quit and try a less offensive sales strategy. You can apply that same philosphy to panhandling—if no one gives, the panhandlers would go away.
By the way, if I were to suddenly run very low on funds, and need to be homeless, this is how I’d do it:
I’d have one large car, or preferably a van or station wagon. It would probably be old an inexpensive, but still run somewhat reliably.
I’d go to a state like New Hampshire, which doesn’t require car insurance, and set up a phony address with MailBoxes Etc. or something like that, then I could legally register the van quite inexpensively.
I’d pay for a membership at a health club, primarily because they have shower facilities there.
I’d grab my camping gear. Portable stove, et cetera.
Then, with my legal MailBoxes Etc address, I’d go out and get a job, any job, even a menial one. Maybe even as the janitor at the health club; I’d probably get free membership, and maybe even get away with keeping my van in their parking lot at night.
I would think that any job, even a minimum wage one, would easily pay for plain, cheap clothes, canned food, the health club membership, motor fuel, and minor repairs for the van, provided I perform the repairs myself.
Now, I know that wouldn’t be quite legal, using the fake address, trying to find a place to park the van where no one would bother you…but it’s still far more legal than squatting or sleeping in an ATM foyer, and with my proposed plan above, I’d meet some of my personal goals: contribution to society, not bother/disturb/inconvenience others, and I think I’d still achieve some level of personal happiness.
Virtu
hey, sorry about that “virtu” thing at the end; it’s a typo, not a signature. I can’t seem to edit it out.
Chris, surely you realize that nearly all of the things that you stipulate cost money. Where is the money for the car, gas, mailbox, and (!!) gym membership going to come from? Surely you recognize that these could very well be more than the cost of rent! (Gym memberships are EXPENSIVE! I can’t possibly see why you would pay the huge startup fee plus monthly just to shower.)
Yet, giving money to homeless people is bad. What about people who don’t have the hundreds – if not thousands (if you don’t have a car to start with, especially) – of dollars required to make your plan succeed? How are they supposed to get back on their feet with essentially nothing to start with?
Yes, people do drag themselves out of such poverty. That doesn’t make it possible or plausible for all able-bodied, able-minded individuals to do so.
This is not taking care of his needs - yes, you are providing the basics, and support of a kind, but it is not addressing that he has probably been living by his own schedule for such a long time that it’s difficult (if not impossible) for him to cope with the change of circumstances involved in keeping to a work timetable, or in living alone all of a sudden when he has been used to choosing his own living companions, or having constant company, if he wishes, at your house. A charity would be able to give him the food and shelter, but also an opportunity for him to figure out the extra problems involved in becoming a ‘normal’ member of society, dealing with a totally new life experience on a day-to-day basis. A charity has trained workers to give support to these ‘hidden’ barriers, which I doubt you have.
Doubtful, plus if he is an addict and not able to get his fix, and too afraid to enter rehab (for which said-charities have outreach workers to try to persuade him that he needs help) he may turn to petty crime in order to find the resources he needs. He may wish to rob your house and so have his needs as he sees them met, rather than to live there.
I don’t wish to suggest that everyone should bend over backwards and give up their money to help people who they see as not helping themselves. But educate yourself first on the multitude of causes for homelessness, that it is seldom a rational or informed choice to begin with, as with drug or alcohol dependancy - people become homeless due to abuse, a moment’s weakness, race and/or sexuality, a simple inability to cope. I am not talking about a person’s right to have anything, but a humane person realises that they are the way they are due to so many differing factors - a good support system at home, an eduaction, a touch of luck in finding the right partner or job. Whatever makes you more able to cope with life than others is not due to your inherent ‘goodness’, but to the lessons and experiences you have been provided with throughout your life. I won’t judge a person’s ‘suitability’ for help with his or her life on the merits of the situation or choices that put them there; a human being suffering is a human being suffering, whether blame can be placed or not.
I would far rather be part of a society which cares for its own, regardless of causality, than one where the primary ethic seems to be ‘only the strong will survive’. Think about what has made you strong, and all that you have to be thankful for that these people do not, for whatever reason. I can’t pretend to know all the causes of homelessness, or the best way to combat these, which is why I try to help provide resources for the professionals who have more of a clue than I do.