Well she’s been charged with a crime. I think the chances are good she’ll see punishment.
I think her actions are dangerous to society and it’s fair to punish her for them. The guy did kill himself so I think her actions fall well below homicide. I think she should see 2-3 years in prison but would accept a mental institution instead.
Manslaughter? Reckless endangerment? Criminal negligence? Hell, harassment? Stalking?
Depending on jurisdiction, but there are laws on the books criminalizing causing someone’s death even if you weren’t the one pulling the trigger.
You put that very well. I agree.
She was indicted for involuntary manslaughter on February 5.
Yes, I should have said “legitimately charged.”
In Massachusetts,
I don’t see that this then-17-year-old girl had legal “duty to act.” I know little of Massachusetts law, but this term is normally applied to doctors, emergency service, therapists, etc., not teenaged girlfriends.
What “unintentional killing” took place? The guy killed himself, intentionally. She did not kill him, intentionally or unintentionally. She contributed to the circumstances that led to his death, but to say that she somehow “accidentally killed” him is quite a stretch, plus his death seems to be exactly what she hoped would happen, so where exactly is the “accident”? At no point did she even pretend that she had sent the messages as a joke that he took seriously or anything like that.
I agree that the “unintentional” part does not seem quite apt.
Charging her inappropriately is probably a move to get her to take a plea rather than risk a harsh sentence, but couldn’t this backfire? Couldn’t she potentially sue for wrongful arrest and end up winning damages?
This is actually one thread I’d like to see remain open and periodically updated as the trial progresses.
The troubling part, for me, is that she did act; when the guy made motions towards NOT killing himself, she acted to dissuade him. Doing nothing would be defensible from a lack of “duty to act,” but actually acting in a way that encouraged the suicide is a whole different matter.
I agree that this is appalling and disgusting behavior, but to prove that her text message was so compelling that the guy had no choice but to obey would be impossible. Being a bad influence–even a horrendous influence–is not the same as committing manslaughter.
The thing is, I cannot even envision a reasonable law that could be created to address future similar circumstances. Telling peers to do dumb things should not be made a crime, nor should suggesting suicide. This would further open the door to a highly intrusive level of conversation policing, plus people would potentially kill themselves with the intention of getting back at those who have hurt them via criminal prosecution. Every suicide would become a murder investigation, causing untold harm to their grieving families.
They don’t need to prove that. Only “wanton…disregard of the probable harmful consequences,” etc.
The idea that someone can probably get someone else to kill themselves using only text messages seems a bit off. This is obviously a rare occurrence.
IMHO the charge should have been Proxymurder
Several years back there was a case where a teenaged girl convinced her boyfriend and others to murder her Dad (or step-dad?) I’m sure someone with a better memory, or stronger google-fu can fill in the details. The point is, she did nothing more than to convince them to do it. She didn’t pay them or anything.
The societal response was rabid, really holding her in more contempt than the actual murderers themselves. I think this case is just the same, except that the person she convinced him to kill was himself.
There was another theory I remember from a TV show “Constructive Murder.” It really seems to fit, but Google doesn’t have much to say on the subject; perhaps it was made up for the script.
If I were to sell someone drugs in MA and they overdosed on drugs. Even though I they came looking for drugs by their own choice and even if they themselves decided to take a higher dose than they can handle, I will be charged with involuntary manslaughter. Manslaughter is a catch all charge for numerous activities that lead to peoples deaths. I’m pretty confident if this goes to a jury they will convict.
But should speech be restricted as if it is as dangerous as drugs?
Plus selling someone drugs that lead to their death presupposes that you sold them illegal drugs. If someone dies from overdosing on OTC medication, nobody is charging Walgreens with manslaughter. If someone legally buys a large bottle of vodka, downs the whole thing, and dies of alcohol poisoning, the liquor store owner is not arrested.
Had the boy declined to follow her texted instructions and not died, would her texts have been illegal? He doesn’t seem to have objected to them, so harassment doesn’t fit.
I won’t be surprised if a jury convicts if this goes to trial, since if what has been published is true she is quite an awful human being and people will want that.
So many of you want to see awful things happen to this girl.
Whatever happened to love, understanding and forgiveness?
Whatever happens to her, she needs to be treated in a caring, compassionate way so that she can learn the wrongness of what she did and then try to treat others in a kind and carying way.
Ummm … are you fucking kidding me? I would tie her hands behind her back and dump the bitch in a river.
I’ve been told that drowning is one of the most painful ways to die. Apparently, once you are under water and can’t breathe, the body forces you to breathe anyway and you breathe in water. That causes the most excrutiating pain imaginable in your lungs.
At least that is what I was told by someone who almost died from drowning and I believe it.
So, F the bitch and drown her!
The liquor store or pharmacy probably wouldn’t be charged because there is no way to predict reckless behavior. On the other hand a bartender who servers alcohol to someone to the point of poisoning themselves to death would be charged with manslaughter. They didn’t force someone to drink but they contributed to their death. If someone came into Walgreens and asked for ‘enough aspirin to kill myself’ and the store sold them their biggest bottle I’d expect a manslaughter charge as well.
There is no way to “predict reckless behavior” in the illegal drug-dealer’s case either. The difference is that illegal drugs are illegal, not that they are more dangerous.
According to the website below, the WHO makes the claim that alcohol significantly outranks illegal drugs in terms of years of life lost:
"Alcohol Impact Measured in Potential Years of Life Lost Due to Premature Death:
As part of the research, the following chart from the Global Health Risks report compares the top global health concerns using the disability-adjusted life year (DALY). DALY extends the concept of potential years of life lost due to premature death to include equivalent years of “healthy” life lost by virtue of being in states of poor health or disability.
As you can see below, of 19 health concerns, alcohol is ranked #3, and is greater than unsafe water, high blood pressure, tobacco, obesity and illicit drugs (ranked #18)."
So we have plenty of reason to believe that that alcohol IS a threat to public safety. The difference is that it is legal and illegal drugs are not.
Most if not all states have laws prohibiting “overserving” alcohol, so the bartender is breaking the law by doing so, even if there is no death or harm as a result. The action of overserving is itself illegal.
I’d have to see some evidence of something similar to the hypothetical Walgreens situation actually resulting in a manslaughter charge and conviction. It seems very unlikely that a drugstore employee is expected to take such a question seriously to the point that they’d face charges for not doing so, and I’m quite certain that I can go around town asking for “enough rope to hang myself” at Home Depot, a box cutter “sharp enough to slit my wrists” at Ace Hardware, and a “wood chipper I can fit my whole body into” at the mower shop, eliciting nothing more than “that’s not funny” comments while they made the sale.