I don’t think the problem is with Gobb’s views - which, as pointed out, are held by millions if not tens of millions of Americans. Sure, they’re risible, but it may be his honest stance. Rather, it’s that his posting is so short and empty, lacking in substance. If he were to write his views in solid 500-word paragraphs or something, I think he’d have been just fine in terms of being a contributing member, even if his views were annoying MAGA-ish or ignorant.
That there is some darn fine sea-lioning.
As stated so well by a couple posters since, the fact ~1/3rd of America believes fake propaganda doesn’t make said propaganda accurate useful information.
“Fox said it, I believe it, and that settles it” isn’t the ironclad debate winner you seem to think it is.
That was the very first thing I thought when I read him. His posts practically screamed it.
Yeah, but you thought magellan01 was worth thousands of the rest of us, so I’m going to take your opinion on their value with a few square meters of Lake Bonneville.
I’m curious why you are curious. Are you “just asking questions”?
Stranger
So, in other words, you’d lie to them. Because that most certainly is NOT what the Nazis did. They did NOT make any distinction between Ukrainian and Russia, and most certainly did not form any alliances with the Ukraine. ALL Soviet POWs were treated the same, i.e. worthy of extermination. 3.3 million of them were deliberately starved to death, they were the second largest group of victims of the Holocaust. Nazi Persecution of Soviet Prisoners of War | Holocaust Encyclopedia
The brutal treatment of Soviet POWs by the Germans violated every standard of warfare. Existing sources suggest that some 5.7 million Soviet army personnel fell into German hands during World War II. As of January 1945, the German army reported that only about 930,000 Soviet POWs remained in German custody. The German army released about one million Soviet POWs as auxiliaries of the German army and the SS. About half a million Soviet POWs had escaped German custody or had been liberated by the Soviet army as it advanced westward through eastern Europe into Germany. The remaining 3.3 million, or about 57 percent of those taken prisoner, were dead by the end of the war. Second only to the Jews, Soviet prisoners of war were the largest group of victims of Nazi racial policy.
The first victims to be gassed to death at Auschwitz weren’t Jews, they were Soviet POWs:
One such group of about 600 Soviet POWs was brought to Auschwitz in the first days of September 1941 and taken to the cellars of block 11. About 250 Polish prisoners selected from the camp hospital were also taken there, after which SS men in gas masks dumped Zyklon B in the cellar rooms, causing the death of the POWs and prisoners there in the course of two days. This was the largest group to be murdered during the tests of Zyklon B, which was used later in the mass extermination of the Jews.
Find me one cite that the Nazis were sorting out “blond haired blue eyes Slavs” from “tan and slanty-eyed communists” in the Soviet POW camps. I dare you. Because they absolutely weren’t.
And before you float nonsense about Ukrainians serving in the German military, Soviets served in the German military, in vast numbers, directly contrary to Hitler’s orders and behind his back. There was no distinction between Ukrainian and Soviet, over 600,000 ‘volunteered’ to be Hiwis - Hilfswilliger or ‘auxiliary volunteers’ - in order to avoid starving to death in the POW camps.
And before you mention that the SS raised a division of Ukrainians, they also raised two of Russians, 30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS - Wikipedia, Russian People’s Liberation Army - Wikipedia, one of the many contradictions of the SS recruiting Untermensch into its ranks. And this isn’t even touching on Vlasov’s Russian Liberation Army
Not even a miniscule “tens of millions”? What a tiny proportion of the over 340 million people in the US that is.
How about the part where he claims that, presumably because his RWNJ talking points are so incredibly obviously true, he doesn’t need to provide cites, and then proceeds to argue with a moderator about why he doesn’t need no steenking cites. Doesn’t generate warm and fuzzies about good-faith posting.
Some Republicans do, for some value of “reputable” and with possibly considerable allowance made for misinterpreting the cite or taking it out of context. This is known in journalism as “a Fox News cite”. But trolls do not.
This is all well and good but wasted, I’m afraid.
The hypothetical of “educating” a captured Russian soldier in a random Ukrainian back yard? C’mon. It’s not like the Russian wanted to be there. The front line guys are mostly conscripted at this point, even from prisons. They aren’t buying the official line anyway, so what is the point in having some sort of imagined intellectual debate with them?
It’s not even a strawman argument. There’s no man-shaped anything. Just a hint of straw and maybe a kerchief.
You put a lot more effort into the hypothetical than was warranted, much like some folks put too much effort into the topic of this Pitting
This isn’t the first time @Sage_Rat has spouted nonsense that borders very precariously on the edge of Holocaust denial. I felt he needed to be called out on it. YMMV.
I reported one of his posts, probably the one you’re referring to, and almost used that exact phrase in the report.
As I recall, this was mentioned in a website that you posted two years ago:
The Holocaust Museum itself appears to have edited the page and removed the text since then, but it was a valid quote at the time.
I knew of it from reading through the actual German genocide and breeding plans and noting the actual actions taken by the Nazis, versus their statements.
Their stated objective was to kill 50% of the people - not 100%. Likewise, they specifically were working on finding “good breeding stock” and all indications are that this would be their favored types. Whether that’s true or not, you can’t have breeding goals with the populace and also genocide goals, if there isn’t some distinction to be had between the individuals.
They allied with the Slovakians (People of the Land of Slavs) and called the Poles “Poles” and Ukrainians “Ukrainians”, even though they’re all three groups of Slavs. Hitler, as I noted previously, waxed lyrically about the Russian emperor and how Russia was a Great Country full of Great People, until it was taken over by the Jews and Asiatics.
I grant that it’s confusing that 1) they called a bunch of people “slavs” who weren’t and called a bunch of people who weren’t slavs other things, but likewise they idealized the Arians - a group of likely dark-skinned people in India - their ideal ancestor. The Nazis weren’t great historians, weren’t always honest, and were often hypocritical, inventing fictions to ally themselves with or demonize whichever group seemed to be most useful to do so with. And 2) in the middle of a war against the country of Russia, and the hassle of trying to support POWs, and a general agenda to keep the whole “genocide” thing on the DL, I wouldn’t be particularly surprised if it was a free-for-all to kill POWs, sort of regardless of the original intent.
I’m not claiming that they were meticulous and carefully separating, testing, and measuring. I’m saying that they were racists and hypocrites (quite happy to ally themselves with Communists until they found themselves in direct competition), and the evidence on the ground doesn’t match a truly ideological intent to destroy what we, in modern times, would call “Slavs”. For that, they’d have needed to have targeted a wide swath of people from the Baltics to the Balkans.
More importantly, you can’t have a modern Nazi Ukraine that wouldn’t have the two goals of 1) Kill Zelensky, and 2) self-genocide.
If I believe that scientific racism is correct, that Jews are secretly controlling everyone, that everyone who claims to be trans is crazy and/or lying, and it can be shown that millions of other people believe those same things (which sadly is probably true), is the SDMB forced to let me express that information and preserve my ability to post about it?
Fuck no. We have rules to try to keep this board functional and not just a completely shitty, toxic place that forces decent people away (which unfortunately hasn’t always been the case for certain members of the community at times). There is no need to let assholes run rampant because other assholes share their ignorance and hatred. That is an idiotic standard to try to maintain.
I was just asking for a cite. Apparently, if we don’t provide them that’s a moddable offense now.
No, I’m Just Asking Questions.
And also, Spartacus.
Which is why, in my first post, I said he came off like a newbie who hadn’t acclimatised to board culture. Ask for a cite on places like reddit and more often than not you just get told to fuck off. Most places aren’t like here.
Making assertions in forums where a cite is necessary can be a moddable offense.
Reading, knowing, and following the rules is an expectation on a message board. If you decide not to follow them, expect moderator action.
Maybe I wasn’t specific enough. To the best of my knowledge, about half the country would most likely agree with every single word Gobb posted. He’s being painted as a MAGA lunatic. In fact, judging by what he’s actually posted, he’s just an ordinary guy. If you believe I’m wrong then by all means quote the post(s) which you find most objectionable. I’m not infallible. It’s certainly possible I might’ve missed something.
It just feels like an unfair pile-on. To the best of my knowledge, the guy hasn’t said anything that’s not mainstream.
FTR I thought the responses to the initial query in the “lethal military” thread were pretty interesting, explaining why lethal machismo is a poor basis for military strategy.
When Gobb announced that firefighters were right-wing paramilitary groups, however, that was a deliberate derailment in progress and an excellent point at which to lock the thread IMO.