The restaurant manager tells you that in order to get a reservation, you have to scrub the toilets and wash the dishes every night. For free. For some indefinitive amount of time. Every time you show up late or you don’t do a good enough job, the manager threatens to renege on the deal unless you literally kiss his ass.
Then the manager calls you up one day and says your reservation slot has come up. But he has one last thing he wants you to do. He wants to hear you say how much you love him. If you don’t gush enough and it is not genuine enough, you can forget about all that work you did. No reservation for you!
I’d rather eat at McDonald’s than deal with this kind of foolishness.
Peer reviewed articles are preferred, then surveys from well regarded pollsters and government sources. One of the best reviewers of polls and statistics out there 538.com already did a lot of the work:
Fews things to note: Atheists are indeed less numerous than religious inmates, one surprise is that there is a good number of inmates that change their religion once they are inside the prison. With more changing their faith from protestant to Muslim and Native American faiths.
See, it really doesn’t work like that in GD. You made a claim, you said you had seen the evidence, and now you claim that providing your cite will result in the reliability of said cite being disputed? Sounds like you have very little confidence in your position.
I’ve seen a lot of documentaries on prisons, mainly US and Russian ones. It doesn’t make me an authority in this field, but I am kind of familiar with the subject. I didn’t take notes when watching those documentaries and I didn’t write down the names of the directors or producers, but when Robert163 mentioned that “Oddly enough, prison is Christians.” I knew what he meant and I agreed with him. But then someone else intervened questioning me on the source of this information and was asked to produce a cite. No problem, I’ll try to do my best but I remember being asked the same thing before on a different occasion only to be ridiculed afterwards on the quality of the source provided, which was why I kindly demanded what criteria such a source should fulfill so that I may avoid undeserved (in my opinion) criticism. I have confidence in my position - it is something else that I have little confidence in, but I’d better refer to what the thread is about. Not exactly what the thread is about actually, but never mind that now.
So. This is what I quickly found. Let’s see how reliable it is. The Federal Bureau of Prisons (US Department of Justice) released a documentin August last year following a request by Hemant Mehta, who created this spreadsheetshowing that Atheists account for about 0.10% of the US prison population.
I’m curious now.
Is this information reliable enough? If not, where on the Internet can anyone find more reliable information on this subject?
Doesn’t anyone question the religiosity of sadistic, heinous criminals who label themselves as believers?
Can anything work more efficiently as a prompter for positive thinking than religion can? Is religion the ultimate source of positive thinking?
Prisons contain far more drug users and thieves than sadists.
No one - or very few people - thinks of themself as a sadistic, heinous criminal. People are the hero of their own story, they have or invent justifications for what they do.
Without studying the issue, community involvement and a rewarding, engaging career come to mind. They have the advantage of being real; how well does faith in a benevolent god hold up to unanswered prayers and misery?
Of course, they do. But 99.99% is almost 100%, isn’t it? Call me stubborn, but I refuse to accept that the religious faith of inveterate violent robbers/burglars, rapists, kidnappers, torturers, active shooters, gangsters and the like is a genuine one. Although I lack specific data, I don’t think they account for a negligible proportion of criminals.
Okay, they’re sociopaths or worse. They consider themselves innocent of the crimes they have committed but society doesn’t. In their opinion, they may regard themselves as religious people, but they fail to satisfy the social standards of a true believer. Besides, I think a specialist (a psychiatrist, that is) could identify numerous phony believers among them as well.
I have to agree that community involvement and a rewarding, engaging career can make great positive thinking boosters, but.
Obtaining them (especially the latter, but not only) may necessitate the initial existence of positive thinking - a vicious cycle.
Personal tragedies tend to wear off people’s confidence and enthusiasm despite the great jobs and social environment they enjoy.
Failures in other aspects of life (such as love) and the difficulty of maintaining a satisfying level of community involvement or receiving the professional recognition one expects may undermine one’s positive thinking.
Faith in a benevolent god does not characterize all religions. But but did you see my answer to a similar question somewhere before? Here it is: "But if you read the article I’ve mentioned, you will notice that positive thinking stems exactly from focusing on comforting emotional input and obstructing discomforting stimuli. Religious belief comes with a personal version of reality which stands for fact in the believer’s mind. This is the reason why no matter what negative aspects you may point out as evidence of a less-than-perfect creation the believer will always claim that you fail to see the big picture, which of course is one of harmony and perfection. "
I don’t know how people would react if they had overwhelming testable evidence of god(s) - too many variables involved - but I think in that case religious faith would no longer qualify as positive thinking, now would it?
I apologize for taking my anti religious stance automatically to response to your question.
My serious answer to your question has a few parts:
1- I agree with Monstro that “positive thinking” will only get you so far. Which is going to work better, spending 1 hour a day repeating a mantra “I am the best guitarist in the world”, or, spending that same hour practicing?
2- If you are trying to figure out if positive directed thought that includes the concept of god is more effective that positive directed thought that does not include the concept of god, you would need a magic wand. You would need to hypnotize people into a state of amnesia so that they had no “concept” of god. Then, you read them the definition of god. Then, you have them do 2 sets of affirmations/mantras, one without the concept of god, one with. This way you could find out the effect removed from any heavily preconceived mental programming about “god”.
3- Since we don’t have a magic wand, I would look to all the people who do pray and make affirmations/mantras about god and yet still arrive at no connection to/with god. This lack of contact/connection would indicate to me that there is no god/god does not respond/interact with us.
4- All this being said, I am a cynical and pessimistic person, so, of course I will have a bad attitude on the topic. Positive thinking may not help you play the guitar better, but, it does have practical use in psychology and self help, if you are stuck or have a bad attitude you want to improve. Practice will improve your ability but changing your thoughts from negative to positive will improve your mood/attitude.
5- I think that having an exaggerated view of your own abilities is very helpful in overall success. Basketball players, politicians, used car salesmen, etc, there are many positions where having an exaggerated view of your own abilities will help you preform better.
I guess that depends on gods nature, wouldn’t it. If it was the all wise loving father type that is so popular in our collective consciousness, I can’t see any problem. An all wise, all powerful, all benevolent deity would be a calming force, right?
Ever meet one of those people that you just feel calmer from being around them? Wouldn’t a benevolent god be like that but times 1000?
Of course, if it was the type of god from HP Lovecraft or the gods the Aztecs worshiped…
Thank you. I think there is a grain of truth in the idea that, besides its social role, religion may help people maintain their confidence and joie de vivre in the face of (harsh) reality.
It’s okay. I practice universal conciliation and I’m quite used to being attacked by both sides of an argument.
I agree with this point, in principle. I happen to play the guitar myself and I know from personal experience that spending an hour every day is not enough to make a lot of progress. In fact, when it comes to important projects and endeavors, great mental and emotional effort is necessary, besides ambition, persistence, unrelenting confidence, etc., the kind of which many people are not capable of. I’m amazed by how many young people in my country go to church and pray for long hours before taking the end-of-year exams that they must pass in order to get their baccalauréat diploma. A lot of them are inadequately prepared, but there are excellent students who are in search of some extra-confidence, or try to ward off bad luck, or things like that. I myself have never used it, despite (for instance) my initial difficulty to deliver presentations in front of large audiences, but that does not make me feel entitled to deride those who manage to extract their positive thinking from religion.
Let me give you a personal example, where I myself obtained a boost of confidence from an unlikely source. I spent much time in my youth studying the religious phenomenon, including superstitions or the zodiac. Again, I’m not an authority in this field, but I kind of know what they’re all about and where they come from – I try to understand human nature and respect people’s traditions. Yet, I find listening to the horoscope or following superstitions quite immature. The personal example that I want to mention begins with this sudden lack of money which I needed to acquire a large apartment. I had already indebted myself with the banks and it was impossible for me to apply for another loan, but I really needed this sum. I’m the kind of guy who never ever borrows money from anybody. When it comes to borrowing money from a friend or family member, the sky cringes in my stomach and I just can’t muster the nerve to do it. So I had almost given up the plan to purchase that apartment, which was quite a bargain actually, when I happened to hear my sign’s prediction for that day (man, how stupid this sounds – I don’t even think I’m any sign). The prediction said that somebody was going to do me an unexpected favor in a matter of great interest for me if I just gathered myself to do it. “Yeah, right.” I rolled my eyes. That day I was going to meet a business partner whom I could never dare to ask to lend me money for such a trivial matter, but I guess I felt desperate enough to think: “What if it works? What if the guy will really lend me the money?” And this is how I risked my business relationship with the man and actually got the money and the apartment.
Playing the guitar or getting money to buy a better apartment are not vital issues though. Doing well in a job interview or getting better when you’re seriously ill are. When it comes to passing a crucial test there are many situations when people either find it hard to prepare adequately (because they’re lazy, comfortable, irresponsible, etc.) or feel they lack what it takes and they’ll never manage to be well prepared no matter hard they struggle. In these cases, people would be ready to take advantage of a little bit of divine help if it is available. And with the inflation of prophets around us, divine help seems to exist in vast supply. But life is unpredictable and even able, hardworking people go through divorce, financial depressions, unemployment, disease, the death of beloved ones, etc., which can undermine and shatter their confidence eventually. Many turn to religious practices to prevent ill fate and/or to deal with its consequences. And those who have a health condition make a special category. I once saw a well substantiated documentary about a teenage boy who had terrible headaches and consulted a doctor only to find out he had a big brain tumor and was about to die in several months. Imagine the shock for his family and himself. I mean these people were capable to resort to the most ludicrous methods to find a solution to this terrible problem, which was why they accepted the advice of a “freelance consultant” who told the boy to visualize his tumor as some sort of enemy and to mentally attack it with a weapon of his choice. And this is what the boy did every day. He imagined he was attacking the Death Star with the Rebels’ weapons until the headaches ceased one day. When the doctors consulted him again after several months and saw there was no tumor in the teenager’s brain, they initially refused to believe it was the same boy. There were sequels to the boy’s tumor, however, and they had to admit something had happened. I’m sure everyone has heard similar stories, many of which are obviously hoaxes, but some of the cases do seem to attest the fact that positive thinking can improve somebody’s chances to get over a desperate situation. Are we entitled to deprive people of this chance simply because the irrational is involved?
Complex social and psychological experiments are difficult or impossible to perform. This is one of the reasons why religion still remains successful. Better solutions could probably be reached through trial and error for example but there are too many personal things at stake and people are reluctant to risk their psychological comfort and social standing.
The question is whether absence of evidence does make evidence of absence in this case. Just as everyone has their unique perception of reality, every believer’s faith is structured differently and shows distinct manifestations. Faith begins with the unquestionable conviction that the divine is real.
[quote=“Robert163, post:35, topic:743312”]
All this being said, I am a cynical and pessimistic person, so, of course I will have a bad attitude on the topic. Positive thinking may not help you play the guitar better, but, it does have practical use in psychology and self help, if you are stuck or have a bad attitude you want to improve. Practice will improve your ability but changing your thoughts from negative to positive will improve your mood/attitude.
[QUOTE]
I’ve always been optimistic but life experience and personal knowledge has turned me into a quite cynical fellow at the moment. Pessimism is still strange territory for me. Maybe I’m more realistic. And I know from what I’ve done and practiced so far that actively focusing on what provides contentment and confidence while ignoring the dark side of reality can equip people with the type of positive thinking that can ensure them success in key situations.
Look at the beginning of the American colonies when people believed they were establishing a new Kingdom of God. To say that their confidence was exaggerated would be an understatement, but the fact that the United States is here and doing well may be evidence of the fact that religion can indeed work as the ultimate source of positive thinking.
What is the middle position to “Execute all the Syrian refugees!” and “Let’s try to assimilate the law-abiding ones into our society and deport those who break the law!” The middle would be something like “Let’s deport all of them!” Which is not as monstrous as the far-far right position, but it is still pretty tragic.
Choosing the middle presumes that both sides are equally extreme and reasonable. This is rarely the case.
