God Existence Quote

Major_Kong · May 28, 2003, 6:20am

I remember a quote about God that went something like, “If man exists, then God does not exist.”

The point being, God is so different form man that if one exists the other can’t be described the same way.

Does anybody know who said the original quote? And what the quote is? I think it was Christian theologian that said it.

don_t_ask · May 28, 2003, 6:51am

“If man exists, God cannot exist…” Sartre

Major_Kong · May 28, 2003, 7:08am

OK, if it was Sartre and I have no reason to assume it was not, am I wrong about what the quote meant?

don_t_ask · May 28, 2003, 8:11am

Sartre says that if man exists and has free will and autonomous control of his actions an omniscient God cannot exist because then man is just an object of God’s free will.

don_t_ask · May 28, 2003, 8:15am

Sorry a bit quick there. As I recall it Sartre’s prime objection is much along the lines that you mean. God is just so powerful that man would be unable to exert any influence on the world but clearly can…thus the quote.

refusal · May 28, 2003, 11:06am

Michael Bakunin in God and the State says something similar. He argues:

This contradiction lies here: they wish God, and they wish humanity. They persist in connecting two terms which, once separated, can come together again only to destroy each other. They say in a single breath: “God and the liberty of man,” “God and the dignity, justice, equality, fraternity, prosperity of men”-regardless of the fatal logic by virtue of which, if God exists, all these things are condemned to non-existence. For, if God is, he is necessarily the eternal, supreme, absolute master, and, if such a master exists, man is a slave; now, if he is a slave, neither justice, nor equality, nor fraternity, nor prosperity are possible for him. In vain, flying in the face of good sense and all the teachings of history, do they represent their God as animated by the tenderest love of human liberty: a master, whoever he may be and however liberal he may desire to show himself, remains none the less always a master. His existence necessarily implies the slavery of all that is beneath him. Therefore, if God existed, only in one way could he serve human liberty-by ceasing to exist.

A jealous lover of human liberty, and deeming it the absolute condition of all that we admire and respect in humanity, I reverse the phrase of Voltaire, and say that, if God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him.

In approximate syllogistic form, this is:

If God exists, man cannot be free.
Man can and must be free.
Therefore God cannot and must not exist.

I imagine most Christians would dispute the first proposition in this syllogism. However, I think the second proposition is more dubious.

refusal · May 28, 2003, 11:08am

He also said more succinctly, and to which my analysis more closely refers: “If God is, man is a slave; now, man can and must be free; then, God does not exist.” (same source)

The_Great_Unwashed · May 28, 2003, 11:37am

Is there good evidence that man has free will?

Without it the second premise of refusal’s syllogism is decidedly dodgy.

Of course, without free will, all that stuff about why God created us looks equally dubious.