And no gobear you did not call me a fucking bitch…nor did I outright say you did…but you did call me stupid.
And IIRC, the presention wasn’t merely about tolerance, it also went into explanations of homosexuality, trans-sexuality et al. Tolerance is fine. Specifics that my kid may not understand and have not heard from me or his dad yet are a different matter and I want to be informed.
Kirk, you’re nuts.Jah knows I have no love for fundies, but they’re people, not robots. They love, the grow, they care, just not about us. If you dehumanize them, you’re no better than they are. Fight them, denounce them and their religious bigotry, but don’t BE one of them, as you are now.
I never ASKED you what you wanted to with the information, and I said I didn’t have a problem with simple notification.
Gomez, I see you live in England, so maybe you’re unfamiliar with American separation of church and state. It is illegal to teach religion in public schools. your analogy is a non-starter.
Actually, I quoted Witch directly, although right now, she’s making more sense. Why don’t you stop causing trouble and just maybe she and I can come to an understanding.
Super Gnat, yes, the administration of the school should have been informed. However, parents should not have. Parents don’t get to choose what their kids are taught in school, and shouldn’t get to choose.
And this is about the oppression of gays. If this presentation had been about something stupid, like basketweaving, this newscycle would not have existed.
Kirk
Kirk is scaring me.
Not to mention, you rant about fundamentalists going away from the teachings of Christ-who taught love and judge not, that you be not judged.
Well, he certainly wouldn’t approve of calling someone an evil whore!
Pot, kettle, black.
I asked my mother how she felt about this-and she said that middle school seems too young. And my mother is someone who absolutely believes in gay rights. She’s just old-fashioned.
As for gay teens and depression-suppose they don’t have a speaker from Wingspan-but there is a very receptive teacher or counselor in the school, who makes it clear that they will discuss or help ANYONE who has a problem in youth-whether it be their sexuality, home life, social life, love life-WHATEVER.
well, if they speaker was talking about actual mechanics, then I would agree with you; that has no place in school. But I can’t see anybody arguing against the mere mention that homosexuality is not evil and callling people “fags” isn’t cool.
One receptive teacher isn’t enough. There must be an organized and orchestrated effort to make gay teens feel comfortable with themselves and thier lives, and to severly punish anyone who belittles those teens for being gay, or uses anti-gay language like “fag.” Just like we should break the necks (figuratively speaking) of any student who is a racist or uses terms like “nigger.”
Kirk
The newscycle would not have existed, but would a fuss have been raised? Depends on that particular district. More importantly, should a fuss have been raised? I would say yes. I don’t care if they were having a press conference with MLK, Gandhi, and Socrates. They should have followed procedure.
Is the gay issue the reason this is getting play? Of course. Does that have anything to do with the important parts of the case? Not at all, I would submit.
As long as we’ve moved beyond the case, though…
A reason parents should have been informed is to decide whether or not to expose their kids to material X(which happened to be homosexual tolerance in this case; could have been anything, really). How can parents decide to pull their kids out of public school when they don’t know what their children are being taught? On the one hand, you seem to be saying that parents who are going to enroll their kids in public school have to suck it up when things they don’t like are discussed. This I would agree with up to a point. But on the other hand, you seem to be denying the parents the ability to make an informed decision on whether or not to expose their children to material X. How do you reconcile these views?
Very simple, if you’re a religious bigot who hates gays, take your kids out of public school. It should be so commonplace for schools to profess that gays and lesbians are a-okay that its like evolution: parents should expect it, so the stupid ones who don’t agree know in advance to pull their brats out of the system.
Kirk
Well, the whole school should agree to zero tolerance on bullying.
I’m saying, though, with my suggestion, it would be a STEP in the right direction.
Remember-Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Hell, I think there should be more information on mental illness and learning disabilities-you have no idea how many times I heard the word, “Retard Room” in regards to the Resource Room (I am LD, but I wasn’t in the program, unfortunately-long story).
Another thing that scares me, though, is that kids may use this information from Wingspan to belittle each other even MORE. We used to hear programs on drug abuse and things like that-and it would cause some kids to act even worse.
There are no easy answers-and I don’t think a speaker from Wingspan, however, is going to solve things overnight.
Much has been made in this thread about the age of the students, so I would like to offer a personal anecdote. A friend of mine has a 7-year old daughter and has already raised the topic with her; something like " Usually boys like to kiss girls and girls like to kiss boys, but sometimes boys like to kiss boys and girls like to kiss girls. You shouldn’t pick on people because of who they like to kiss, because it’s nasty. You don’t like it when people pick on you and it’s the same thing." So far her daughter has not asked for tips on oral sex or shown an unusual interest in dungarees, and has in fact been known to castigate her friends for inappropriate use of the word ‘gay’ as an insult. So I disagree completely with those who say it is impossible to offer information on this topic appropriate to young children.
Yes, but how do they know that the school is teaching things they don’t believe should be taught in school. Just saying “parents should expect it” doesn’t seem to address the problem at all. You’re expecting them to depend on anecdotal information instead of the schools official information on its curriculum and activities. The mindset you advocate seems to be “don’t ask don’t tell”. The school district has nothing to hide.
I have no particular concern for Wingspan or any other organization. The point is that there must be a steady drumbeat of “its okay to be gay,” so as to help these kids, no matter the discomfort to the children of bigots. Death trumps discomfort. Better to discomfort a billion people than to allow the death of one.
Kirk
Diogebes While I was familiar with the Separation of Church and State (you can’t miss it on these boards) I should have taken that into account when I constructed my analogy. In my defence it is 3:00am and I’m taking a break from writing th eessay I’ve been doing almost continuously for 7 hours. I’m ti-i-i-i-i-i-ired 
Having said that, Libertarian’s gun control analogy works perfectly well. You can’t doubt the fact that a considerable proportion of America would agree with the idea that such tuition would save lives. However, I wouldn’t want my kid learning about it without my express permission.
gobear…we are agreed on that…and I’ve been saying that all along…that’s why i’ve been getting so darn frustrated, I feel like no ones really taken the time to READ my posts.
And Dio…i didn’t mean to come off as snarky…I was just making the point that I don’t think parents should have to give a reason why they want to be informed…forgive my abruptness…my head is starting to spin around like Linda Blair’s at this point.
Gnat, I’m not saying the district hide it. But they shouldn’t trumpet it, either. They should jsut do it, like they just teach evolution, and make no secret, nor big deal, out of it. It should be a component of any American life studies class or social studies class that deals with modern America. Just like evolution is a component of any reputable biology class.
Kirk
What about when you did it to me?
Hey, Kirk, have you ever thought that the reason you’re treated like a second-class pseudo-citizen is not because of sexuality, but because you’re just a fucking asshole? “Black and white” issue, my ass. Why don’t you just come right out and say “If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem”?
“I’m not saying the district hide it.” Christ, that’s not even English. Ahem. “I’m not saying the district should hide it.”
Kirk