God forbid we teach our kids

The BBQ Pit
521

No. I think there’s a lack of discussing any kind of sexuality with regards to middle-schoolers, and I’m not sure that’s a bad thing. I don’t see the ‘agenda’ and need further convincing - we are still telling preteens not to be sexually active, right? So we are guilty of pushing only one kind of sex that they shouldn’t be having instead of being equal about it? Mr. Visible, you asked me if I’d freak if I found my 13-year-old making out with another girl in her room; I’m cool with it so I should just close the door and leave them alone?

I also asked how assuming you were heterosexual would be offensive, and I get: because you shouldn’t be wondering about my sex life - or - you should just ask me. I wasn’t wondering about anyone in particular especially on a BB. If I have a chance to meet someone in person their sexuality doesn’t even enter the picture yet - if I assume ‘heterosexuality’ is because that’s the default. I may never learn that fact, and don’t need to. Again… exactly how is that offensive?

For the third time now…should we or should we not be using the word “queer”?

A public school teenager could come up with questions like these easily, so…answers please.

522

Yea, you got me Hastur.

523

Much like before, you are saying a whole lot of nothing.

Either make a point, or stop wasting electrons.

524

on the other hand, I realize this has been a long thread and I’m no one to demand answers. Didn’t like the tone of that, so please disregard.

525

Actually, I don’t mind answering.

In the whole ‘walking in on your teen daughter kissing another girl’ scenario; I don’t know what you should do in that situation. I don’t know that there is a right answer. I do know, though, that the situation wouldn’t be easy for any of the people involved; that’s the kind of thing that breaks up families, and nobody wants that. What I’d rather see is that girl feeling as though she can approach her parents about her feelings, to be able to discuss them and get her parents’ advice before the situation comes up. And the only way that’s going to happen is if she gets good information from a reliable source about homosexuality, and understands that it’s not bad, that she’s not a monster for having these feelings, and that there are a lot of ways to approach your parents about your feelings. That way, you don’t get the mom-shocked-in-the-doorway scenario; instead, you get a daughter who’s not so far removed from her family that she needs to hide something as basic as her sexuality from them.

So, in short: whether your daughter gets an education about gays and lesbians in school, and the odds are she won’t, it may make her life and yours easier and better if you take some time some year soon, and sit down with her and explain what gay people are, and that it’s okay with you if she turns out to be one. That she can trust you if it ever comes to that. And if it seems like that’s redundant information, ask any gay person you know if such a talk would have made their childhood easier.

About taking offense at having someone assume you’re straight… well, I don’t take offense at that, so I don’t know. But there’s a big difference between having an individual assume everyone is straight, and having an educational institute do the same thing.

The word ‘queer,’ like the word ‘nigger,’ has been appropriated by some segments of the culture as their own. They feel they can use it to describe themselves, but if it’s used by anyone outside the group, it’s inappropriate. I don’t like the term myself, and I’d prefer it fell out of usage by everybody in this context.

526

I’m pretty sure that not discussing sexuality is a bad thing, given that misinformation and rumour are rampant, and a lot of kids are unaware of a lot of basic information about sexuality and pregnancy.

The whole point-and-giggle thing results more because kids are bright enough to know when a subject is taboo. And, of course, taboo subjects spawn rumours and misinformation as people try to pass themselves off as knowledgeable on the forbidden material. None of this contributes to the result of getting kids to try sex later; it seems to me much more likely to encourage them to try sex sooner, so as to get actual information.

As to why presuming something about orientation can be offensive? Aside from the points of privacy already mentioned, I gotta say it’s a real pain not to have a partner recognised as a partner solely because of some outside presumption about what a relationship looks like.

527

OK. People who keep saying “I want to exercise my right to fully control my kid’s education,” here’s the deal: That is an argument against public schools, not against teaching specific things in public schools. An argument against teaching specific things in public schools would sound more like “I think teaching my kid would be bad for my kid.”

So, how are we to approach the question of homosexuality in the context of public education? Silence? No. Here’s the thing: Every system of education takes a position on every issue at all relevant to children, because schools are presented as the forum for learning. Religion, race, gender–nothing is exempt. Children’s ideas about everything will be shaped at least to some extent at schools. This is why it is vitally important to be as tolerant as possible, because tolerance implies neutrality. It implies that a particular characteristic is not important in determining whether someone is a good person or not. As Hamish pointed out a long time ago, silence does not imply neutrality, it implies criticism in the case of homosexuality. Being gay is so much a secret for a child growing up in a heterosexist community that silence, especially from an authority figure that is supposed to shape children in a reasonable way, reinforces the single most pressing problem facing gay teens.

Thus, if we look at public education as being intended to make people good people, and if tolerance is a part of being good, then clearly we have to side with approaching homosexuality in a tolerant way.

But what about the relationship of education to rights? I am not at all convinced, first of all, that a parent’s right to teach his/her children what s/he wants trumps my big brother’s right not to have his identity denigrated constantly in public schools. I think all groups have a right to be approached with tolerance by governmental institutions, of which a school is one, and perhaps the most salient to how people are treated in society.

The fact of the matter is, whether parents like it or not, our public schools teach children to be tolerant of other races and religions. Homosexuality is only different, it seems to me, because so much of the population is still homophobic. I don’t think that population is something that ought to be pandered to.

Am I being intolerant of another group of people’s perspective? Yes. I am being intolerant of the perspective that intolerance ought to be preached by omission in public schools, to children.

Ulterior

528

Hastur, perhaps, perhaps you missed the first gazillion pages of the thread when I was one of the more active posters. I think I earned the right to make such an observation.
And if you had read the whole thread and still felt compelled to say that, I am going to laugh at you.

529

I feel compelled to say that after reading your tripe and still waiting for you to say anything of substance or intelligence.

You give witches a bad name. Might I suggest you change your handle to something more fitting like InsipidWench.

530

I think that the length of this thread is affecting board performance, so I’m closing it.