Oh, c’mon. If a Wikipedia article about a movie based on a true story that appears on the Lifetime Channel about a guy’s memory of what he experienced when the bloodflow to his brain was minimal doesn’t count as objective evidence of a cosmic truth, surely you’re setting the standards too high.
Daniel
Not to mention the quoted article states that the prophcies revealed unto him turned out to be false.
I rather expected that to come up. There is no such thing as objective anything, we humans bring our spins and slants to everything we touch or examine.
If I got hit by lightning it would certainly be unrefutable objective evidence to me.
‘Objective evidence’ means something different than how you’re using it.
Lekatt, NDEs have been shown to be natural phenomenon occuring as the brain dies. Pointing out tiny little discrepancies and things that can’t be explained immediately does not allow you to declare that people live on after death. You do this every time the subject comes up, and every time you fail to give any evidence whatsoever. People like you are one of the reasons I am an athiest.
Clearly people believe what they want to believe, or what they are taught to believe. I have read many accounts of atheists being turned into believers by a near death experience. The spiritual world will never be defined by science, therefor many scientists will continue to say “there is no evidence” until they have their own near death experience. It does happen to everyone, some come back and some don’t.
Sigh. This is ridiculous. The leaps you try to make in defending your beliefs is amazing. Are you honestly trying to say that no two people will come to the same conclusion given an observation?
Evidence of what?
I’m having trouble parsing this post. Is there, or is there not, such a thing as objective evidence?
And do you understand that the phrase “subjective evidence” exists precisely to cover what you’re calling “objective evidence to me”?
Daniel
Wrong, you are quoting very old ideas about NDEs. Each time it comes up I provide evidence of the studies done and being done, and every time you read one paragraph and say something negative about it. It’s ok I have come terms with the procedure.
You’re doing that irony thing again.
Just want to give you a choice, really doesn’t matter does it?
And some of those who “come back” don’t have the experience you describe. Why should we privilege the descriptions of those who claim to have had the description over those who have not? Especially given that there is a neurological explanation for those who have had the experience; what is the supernatural explanation for those who have not?
Daniel
What doesn’t really matter? Your post was literally incoherent, that is, the parts of it didn’t cohere to make a consistent whole. I was asking for you to clarify how you were using the language, so that you could communicate your ideas more clearly. But if it really doesn’t matter, and if you really don’t care to communicate your ideas, then perhaps we’d all be better off ignoring your posts–not because we fear their contents, but because their contents are literally meaningless.
Daniel
Sure, if the two people came for the same school and believe in the same thing they would probably agree. People with different backgrounds would not. This is what makes a believer believe and a scientist a scientist. In their own little box they are alike. But there is a whole universe out there of things unknown. Yes, there is a spiritual world, 90% of the world’s population agree, now where does that put your ideas.
Also, would any self respecting Christian who “died” for a few minutes admit that nothing out of body happened? The next Sunday, the preacher asks him to come forth and tell the flock what happened, what’s he going to say- nothing? As for “it must be true because the descriptions from different people are all similar”, so are the descriptions of aliens from those who have seen them throughout history.
Let’s not forget that lekatt STILL won’t answer to the fact that when he offered a specific claimed case of a NDE, Pam Reynolds, he basically ran away from questions that were raised about the accuracy of his account. He STILL refuses to address them. He claimed she was brain dead for 2 hours, when in fact it was a matter of minutes. He won’t address the fact that most of her supposed NDE experiences started and took place when she was demonstrably NOT DEAD AT ALL: merely under general anethesia, and as happens in many cases, potentially not well under.
When you are young and your life experiences are at their lowest levels ,you are introduced to religion. It is done by your parents who you rely upon for life and who love you. It is nearly impossible to mentally fight when you are young. The religions have had 2000 years of tinkering to find ways to sell their message. You are just a kid. You believe and trust.
For some as you get older the teachings show a fatal lack of proof and logic. Critical questions are answered by you must have faith. For many that is enough. For some not only is it not enough but you get pissed for being subjected to all that propaganda when you are most vulnerable to it. The calming feeling of a god and life after death are suddenly wreched from your psyche. The existential angst of facing your belief system crumbling before your eyes is not easy. You are faced with the reality that your parents,schools and much of the society have been lying to you. On another level you have to find a reason to do the right thing in life because your framework has been destroyed. It requires a lot of thinking and self inspection. But if you emerge with a stance that following laws and doing the right is correct. ,you have to replace the religion with a personal philosophy to guide you. When you don’t do the proper thing you can not make it go away by confession. You own it. Being an atheist is not an escape from rules but a step into responsibility that you can not escape. and don’t want to.
You do not choose to become an atheist. For many you have no choice.
Very simple: we know that all people dream through REM, we also know that not all people remember their dreams. We know that all people do not remember their near death experiences, because some will remember them months even years later after the experience. Some will never remember them.
Now if a person dies and then comes back but doesn’t remember anything, I asked them if their life has changed, do they feel differently about things than before. So far all have said yes their life has changed. This is a characteristic of a near death experience.
I guess you are going on the assumption that if you tell a lie often enough people will finally believe it. You had your answer months ago, sorry you didn’t like it.
Again, without some explanation of what these experiences are, we can’t scratch that theory. For all we know they are perfectly normal things that you reinterpreted after deciding that God existed.
Again, lots of things happen to people that are perplexing and disturbing… and then its easy to see how they can be interpreted as part of a pattern of a single being God doing things. Without more specifics, this really isn’t much of a response to the query.
It’s also a characteristic of a major trauma, innit?
Daniel