In the final episode of the most recent series Vee makes the statement that it’s OK to betray her commitment because she will apologize afterwards and ask God for forgiveness. This is the most fucking evil statement I have ever heard, and at the same time captures in a nutshell the problem I have with religion.
What is it about religion that convinces so many people that it’s OK to do evil as long as they are sure to confess and ask for forgiveness afterwards? WTF! What is this about?
At the same time, all my life I’ve had religious people suggest that I can’t really have morals if I’m not religious. What the fuck is this about?!
So, my personal integrity counts for nothing because I don’t believe in God, but yours is unshakable because you can do any fucking thing you want and as long as you repent afterwards it’s OK?! Get a fucking clue! As far as I’m concerned my personal commitment to honesty and fairplay counts for one hell of a lot more than your personal commitment to repent afterwards.
It’s a lame commitment she made on a TV reality show? Who cares what she said. She can break and fragile, self-serving, selfish, shallow commitment she made on Survivor…it’s not real life.
Put down the remote and back away from the TV, Rutabegger
In addition, having the attitude that one can sin now and repent for it later is itself considered a very serious sin, which must be honestly repented of in order to get forgiveness at all.
Somebody should tell her that “I crossed my fingers, so it doesn’t count” doesn’t work in adult life.
and we should condemn ‘religion’ because some titwrinkle on TV has a misguided approach to it?
I generally avoid religious discussions all over the place (here, IRL, in fantasies…), but I’ve gotten a bit tired of the stance that seems to be taken here - you see a person who is a piss poor example of a group and decide ‘that’s whats wrong with the group’.
So, by the same logic, we should point disdainful fingers at ourselves 'cause we’ve had certain members here who were, shall we say, logically impaired?
The concept in Hebrew is called echte v’ashuv (I will sin and I will repent). Obviously, it’s a no go.
I don’t watch Survivor (I prefer to watch Whose Line on Thursday nights!) so I don’t know the nature of the commitment. If it was a commitment between herself and a fellow person (e.g., not a promise to God) then simply repenting in Judaism is not enough. If I were to hurt someone (physically, emotionally, monetarily, whatever), I cannot ask God for forgiveness until I ask the injured party for forgiveness and they grant it.
Of course, I realize that the chances that the Survivor in question is Jewish is extremely low…
“Go ahead and hate your neighbours,
Go ahead and cheat a friend,
Do it in the name of Heaven,
Justify it in the end.
There won’t be any trumpets blowing
Come the Judgement Day,
On the bloody morning after,
One tin soldier rides away…”
Zev - Vee was definitely not Jewish. Every little thing seemed to elicit a “God is good” or a “Praise be to Christ.”
I thought she was out of line too. Survivor is a game. Within the rules and confines of the game, deception and lies are almost expected. You don’t need to seek divine forgiveness for playing the game. If you feel you do, then perhaps this isn’t the right game for you.
But she definitely had a “easier to ask forgiveness than to beg permission” attitude. As I said in another thread, if you’re thinknig about doing something that will require you asking for forgiveness, then you shouldn’t be doing it.
wring, perhaps I wasn’t clear that I am not condemming every religious person based on this single person’s statement. Here’s what I’ve heard from religious people all my life:
“I am inherently better than you because I have accepted X. How I actually behave doesn’t matter because X will save me. You, on the other hand, have already fallen from the bottom rung, so you’re damned no matter what you do. How can you pretend to moral behavior, when your behavior has no external basis? I am better than you because, even when I slip, I am striving towards God’s word, so He will save me from the consequences of my mortal failings.”
But Vee said it so nicely, in just a few simple words!
Oh, I understood your point, I think. I recall quite pointedly certain individual folks who were very proud of their Christianity, but since I didn’t belong to their church were also as pointedly proud to ignore, be out right rude to me.
However, even when faced with ijiots, I try really really hard to see that it’s individuals vs. the group. For I have also met certain other folks, Catholic, Assemblies of God, Jehova’s Witnesses, who even while being devout in their beliefs were also quite polite, respectful and human/humane to those non believers around them.
Perhaps I’ve been reading too many pit threads of late, but criminey, when it gets to the point where I’m stepping into a religious fray to defend folks for having strong beliefs, well, it’s damned odd.
Absolutely right on! It’s not the strategy I’m objecting to, it’s the way she rationalized her behavior to herself - and more specifically, it’s how often I’ve seen that rationalization used by others.
Christianity does not teach that it’s OK to do evil as long as you say “I’m sorry.” It can be viewed that way by some, but that’s not the message. The idea is, we all sin…no matter how good a life you lead, you will inevitably sin. Christianity teaches that if you believe in Christ and honestly ask for forgiveness (ie, you are truly sorry), you will be forgiven. It’s what allows us as imperfect beings to be accepted into heaven.
On the other hand, if you say: Heck, I’m just going to waste some guy, or rape some girl, or steal some stuff, and it’s ok, because tonight I’ll just say “sorry,” God’s not going to be pleased, and he’ll know you’re not truly sorry about it. Now if you do that, then truly realize the error of your ways, and ask for forgiveness, you will be forgiven, but you can’t just use it as a “get out of jail free card.”
Question:
If the chief sin in Christian teaching is pride, arrogance, and the like, then wouldn’t arguing you can do any awful thing, as long as you say you’re sorry, and planning both to sin and repent, an incredible transgression?
After all, you’re essentially planning to circumvent the commitment to God and his will that you’ve made, by taking advantage of what you would consider a loophole. You’re enjoying whatever benefit you would gain from sinning without paying any sort of price, in terms of remorse, et. al.
Sounds like an unbelievably arrogant train of thought to me.
