God must be a sadist

[Human_Action]

@pchaos

I’m being facetious here, but the point being, I’m still on a spiritual quest. I would go further and say that even if you don’t believe in God but enjoy discussing and debating these matters, that you are also on a spiritual quest.

Perhaps. I don’t think of it as a “spiritual” quest but rather an attempt to understand the world and my place in it. So far, all the answers that satisfy me and comport with reason have been naturalistic ones. I don’t expect that to change, but the future is unknown. Perhaps a personal tragedy or vision or NDE or something of that nature could drive me to religion.

@simster

Aye - but there’s the rub - what are the “essential” truths? While some of the concepts might make for a fine philosophy (aka “the golden rule”), If the work on whole cannot be trusted to be accurate, how would one determine what an “essential” truth from it is?, whether or not it is from “God” or just some man’s “idea” ?

That’s a dilemma for theists, at some point it all distills down to “I believe what I believe because I believe it”. And that simply isn’t compatible with reason.

[simster]

@Human_Action

That’s a dilemma for theists, at some point it all distills down to “I believe what I believe because I believe it”. And that simply isn’t compatible with reason.

agreed.

[QuickSilver]

I think **Human Action **and pchaos have shown class in conceding this debate. I’ve enjoyed following this one. Thanks all.

[Human_Action]

@QuickSilver

I think **Human Action **and pchaos have shown class in conceding this debate. I’ve enjoyed following this one. Thanks all.

I try to be classy, thanks.

[Czarcasm]

@Human_Action

I try to be classy, thanks.

As Devil’s Advocates go, you ain’t half bad.

[Razncain]

@Czarcasm

As Devil’s Advocates go, you ain’t half bad.

No argument from me either. I think it would be difficult for any of us to represent the other side as well as he did. Not an easy task for anyone. You couldn’t rattle him either, he always kept his cool.

[Human_Action]

@Czarcasm

As Devil’s Advocates go, you ain’t half bad.

Thanks. You folks really gave me a run! I’ve got to get used to a higher level of opposition around here than what I’m used to.

I didn’t really follow up on the ideas in this post:

@Human Action

This is the part of your points that makes sense to me: based on the above, your religious views are emotional, and not based on logic or reason. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t hold them; it if makes your life better, than stick with it. That would be the rational response. It doesn’t make the religion itself rational or logical, but belonging to the religion can be if it benefits you, through a sense of community, access to a hub for charitable activity, peace of mind, a source for friendships, access to the advice of others, moral guidance, help in trying times, and so forth.

So I’ve spun off a new thread.

[simster]

@Czarcasm

As Devil’s Advocates go, you ain’t half bad.

seconded (or thirded I thnk by this point)