Suppose the grieving parents were religious, would you tell them God was sadistic if you believed it were true.
If they are religious as you say, I’m afraid I’d have to ask them why are they grieving? Did they think their son was in Hell? If so, you’d have the explaining to do, not us.
I wouldn’t do something to hurt them more while they were grieving.
Some of you better be careful what you say here; God has been known to sic killer bears on those who reject believers. But then, that was the OT God. Maybe the NT God would send something else, like honey badgers.
Seriously though, the Biblical God does come off as somewhat of a psycho, doesn’t he?
For God so loved (hated) the (sinful, depraved) world that he (condemns all of humanity to eternal torment unless they believe) gave his only begotten Son, so that (if you don’t say the magic words) whoever believes in Him may (die horribly and suffer endlessly for eternity) have eternal life.
Plus, there’s the aforementioned question of why God’s “good” creation went bad, and why His upcoming “new” creation (“behold! I am making all things new!”) as described in the Book of Revelation can promise to be forever sin-free (after all, in the New Heaven and New Earth, God is so confident that these “new creations” will never sin that He invites them to eat from the Tree of Life, a huge no-no for sinful Man in the OT). So, according to the Bible, God most certainly could have made everything perfect in such a way as to eliminate even the possibility of sin, but He didn’t, and He did so…well, why? Because he needed a practice run? Because he really enjoys battle scenes?
And how about Exodus 7:3 where god hardens Pharaoh’s heart. No matter what Moses does, Pharaoh can’t change so that god can kill the Egyptians. God is truly a vile, sadistic creation.
As far as I’m concerned, the only moral stand you could take is to remain silent. Look guys, in some ways this thread is condescending. You are telling religious people there are some serious problems with their God because some very bad things happen.
Most of the religious people I know already know that there’s a problem with their God. But they are faithful in spite of that, they find consolation in this imperfect God, and they are able to console others because of their belief.
People who believe God is a sadist have little or nothing to offer.
There are theologists who have written extensively on this issue. You have been acting like it’s not an issue at all, while the ‘experts’ in the field (theologists, philosophers, etc) acknowledge that there is an issue here.
You say that you wouldn’t follow Joshua’s orders to kill women and children, but what if God was speaking directly into your ear - would that make any difference in your mindset? Would you then think it was okay to kill women and children?
You’re not making much sense.
More often than not, your sentences don’t seem to be interrelated.
"You are telling religious people there are some serious problems with their God "
Then you say most believers already know that.
Really?
Most times the reaction is “No! God is Good God is Love!” not “Yeah, yeah, we know”
Then you say people who know ( you are still referring to those ‘believers that know’?) have little to offer.
Your point is not clear.
I’m having to guess that what you mean to say is something like “People who believe in God can comfort mourners while atheists can not.”
“Hey, God’s doing the best he can, I’m sure he didn’t mean for you’re child to get cancer”
That’s a new approach.
How about freedom from worshiping a sadistic ‘God’ and all the religous trappings associated with it?
You’re the one that thinks god is sadistic, not me.
We have plenty to offer, starting with there is no sadistic God that is going to be offering your loved ones any chance of an eternal fiery Hell of damnation if you didn’t believe such stories. Can you offer them the same? Just admit already the biblical god described is a Fiend and isn’t worthy of worship or respect. That cruel doctrine has caused enough mental anguish and misery in people’s lives. There are studies that show fundamentalists, despite their happy faces on Sunday, actually have many that suffer from depression. No God worthy of that title would be as the bible described.
There is a time and place for every discussion. Religious discussions are not an appropriate time to start debating the points at funerals. They are appropriate for here and many places on the internet.
And if you really want to know what many non-religious people would say, there are many celebrations of life these days, with many dropping the religious setting or minimizing it. It’s a time to comfort people, not put fears into their head.
There are many eulogies by Robert Ingersoll that religious people had asked for him to speak. Even a preacher who had went before him, said he wanted Ingersoll to say some words for him if he went first, and Ingersoll wanted the same from him if he had gone before him. Their family came calling on Ingersoll of which he obliged. And imagine at this one child’s funeral, when a policeman and his wife lost their child, but spotted him in the crowd. They told another to go see if Robert would say a few words. He did. Yeah, that’s right, Mr. Clergyman would you step down, and let the Infidel speak.
Your diversion on this thread, gives clues once again, you have little or nothing to offer anyone, other than, you’ll continue believing in a sadistic God that had to drown His own children, so why as Ingersoll put it, does He tell us how to raise ours? This isn’t a good book for parenting. This book instructs General Moses and Joshua in mass genocide, telling them to keep the fresh virgins for themselves. He had a disdain for handicapped, not wanting anyone that had any blemishes to make offerings. Women that you raped, you get to keep for yourself. Children don’t fare any better. These stories are as ridiculous as they are cruel and untrue.
you’re changing your question - I am responding to what we have to offer. I don’t believe in any God - so wether or not he is a sadist is irrelevant to me.
Can you please define “atheist” for us? I’m not quite sure you have a firm grasp on the definition.
So what would you say to the parents, if you knew the parents were religious and the son that died was also religious.
Ha!
I just said that nobody was suggesting doing this. Why are you now asking if I would do it?
It’s not condescending. It’s a question about what people believe.
Oh? Show we where you’ve acknowledged this point.
I’d have plenty to say, again something along Ingersoll’s eulogies. What would you say to an unbelievers parents who lost their son?
“I’m sorry for your loss, is there anything you need that I can help with?” - the same thing I would say to any person, religous or not.
I’m certainly not going to tell them that there recently departed loved one is “in a better place” or that “god has a plan” - all empty meaningless things to say to a grieving parent.
Hurting people unnecessarily is bad. Which is why the God described in the bible is such a cock.
There are problems with the religious person’s assertions. They are claiming things which cannot be true.
Most Christians don’t believe in an imperfect God.
Only realty and strong arguments. You’re just rebelling at the idea, not defending your position.
That’s what I would say and I would say it with conviction. And the parents who are religious would feel better, and I would feel better because my grandson had died.