Fair point, though one could argue that this fact alone highlights the need for evocative rhetoric to make people realize why the situation is wrong. (The cynic in me knows it wouldn’t actually work, though, so I wouldn’t argue that.)
Pretty feeble, John.
“American soldiers are nothing like Nazi and Commie slimeballs.”
There you go. Now you can go ahead and write a post on how “Joe compared American soldiers to Nazis and Commies.” Because I just did.
-Joe
Yeah, there you go alright…
This is argument and nitpicking solely for the sake of argument and nitpicking. Unbelievably stupid.
I do wish that dudes here would stop misquoting poor Godwin. In the case of this politico, Godwins “law” doesn’t apply. Here’s the quote "Godwin’s law (also Godwin’s rule of Nazi analogies) is an adage in Internet culture that was originated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states that:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. "
Godwins law doesn’t prohibit a comparison to a gulag, or a concentration camp, or even to Hitler. It just says that* in an on-line debate*, such a comparision is inevitable.
Concentration camp: “a camp where persons (as prisoners of war, political prisoners, or refugees) are detained.” - Webster’s Dictionary, Tenth Edition
What’s the problem? Gitmo is a concentration camp if ever there was one. Aside from the tortures and the murders it should also be remembered that no one there has been accused of committing any crime, nor have they shown to be enemies of the US. People are scrabbling for historical analogies but nothing quite fits precisely. This administration has invented a brand new evil by arrogantly declaring that they are simultaneously exempt from the Geneva Convention as well as from any sort of US criminal law. I suspect that in future years, the word “Gitmo” will itself become viewed as hyperbolic and over the top in describing some sort of unreasonable prison situation.
Kudos to Senator Durbin for calling it like it is and even more kudos for not backing down. This White House needs to start getting called on its tyranny. This does not equate to what Santorum said.
First of all, I’m pretty sure the OP specifically objected to a comparison to the Nazi Party, rather than mere concentration camps.
Second, I’m no fan of Bush and his administration, but they can’t hold a candle up to Germany 1933-1945. As such, Durbin is just name-calling; this isn’t a useful tactic for making a point if you’re in elementary school, much less the United States Senate.
Would someone please explain to me how comparing the powers-that-be to Nazis is going to help those being held at Guantanamo Bay?
OK, at the risk of being flambeed by the liberal tide of lemmings, may I ask a question?
Invoking the name of Nazi’s, Stalin and Pol Pot brings a few images foremost to mind.
Nazi’s conducted wholesale ghetto campaigns, collecting men, women, children and the elderly because of their ethnicity. After they were collected into ghetto’s they were shipped to camps where they were quickly executed and burned ( but not until the Nazi’s got the gold from their teeth), or worked until they died of malnutrition. They also had the infamous Dr. Mengele (among others) who conducted gruesome medical experiments regarding changing eye color, the effects of artillery on the body, the effects of extreme altitude on the body and submersion in freezing water to test survival gear for downed luftwaffe pilots.
Stalin conducted pograms that eliminated jews and any who represented a possible threat to Uncle Joe’s iron rule. His reign was noted for its oppression of civil liberties and the “disappearance” of anyone who ran afoul of the regime.
Now…can anyone tell me how the events at Gitmo compare? I will grant you that there certainly have been times when people in charge of the inmates have gone overboard, but that is standard (unfortunately) in every army that takes prisoners. You are going to have incidents where a soldier’s conduct is reprehensible.
But torture? You mean like the rack? Or thumb screws? Or branding with a hot iron? Or being held under water? I think our livers may have gone a bit lilly. But that is to be expected of much of the left.
Could you complain about circumstances at Gitmo? Certainly. There are a number of incidents you could cite. But I challenge anyone to show me how our treatment of prisoners there justifies the comparison drawn by Durbin.
And don’t you think that it is giving aid to the enemy when any al-Quaida sympathizer can now quote a US Senator in comparing us to the Nazis?
Anyway- after saying all that, tell me how Gitmo=Nazi…
No, it’s not “giving aid to the enemy” to tell the truth. And Durbin did not say “US troops are nazis.” What he said was this:
In other words, if you heard about some of these things, and didn’t know it was Americans, you’d probably think it was Nazis or Commies. A perfectly valid and accurate statement, and it’s the kind of thing that needs to be said more often and more forcefully.
Suggesting that anyone who objects to imprisoning and torturing people (people who have been accused of no crime and have not been shown to be any kind of enemy or threat to the US) is “giving comfort to the enemy” is a chickenshit cheap shot and a diversion from the real issue.
I worked at a Nabisco plant during college and in the oven section it was over 120 degrees F and we worked…and we got used to it. Sure we took breaks, but you can get used to the heat. I don’t call that torture, nor do I call it Nazi-worthy. Same thing for someone being chained to the floor without food or water. (for how long? an hour? a day? a week? I think that matters.)
And having a US Senator make a poorly drawn comparison between American efforts and those of the most hate-filled and tyrranical regimes ever know DOES provide comfort to the enemy.
You still did not explain how Gitmo=Nazi.
Y’know, this type of thing reminds me of the time the Sex Pistols were on a talk show and the host was taking them to task for “calling the Queen a moron”. Johnny Rotten tried to explain that the lyric says “God Save the Queen, a fascist regime, it made you a moron, potential H bomb” and the insipid host kept saying “so, you’re calling the Queen a moron”.
I am not suggesting that at all. You are twisting my words. I think that there are many noble people who want to draw attention to the treatment to those imprisoned at Gitmo. I think these efforts keep the situation as honest as it can hope to be. But comparing the situation as Durbin did was clumsy and heavy handed. I cannot believe that people are so unable to NOT oppose the Bush administration that they cannot put their thinking caps on here and admit that the Senator misspoke.
How many seats you wanna lose during the mid-terms? With thinking like that, it is assured.
Quoted in Al-Jazz? Cool.
You know why? Because Joe Camelhumper will read that an American elected representative can tell The Leader he sucks, and he runs the risk of being yelled at. That is the our very best propaganda, the truth.
Fuck our enemies, who cares what they think? Care about what people who are not yet our enemies think.
From my lips to the ears of Allah, let them say:
“Wow, that’s cool! The American people decided that thier leaders were screwing the scorpion, and they told them to stop, and …they did! I want my country to be just like that when we grow up…”
A policy that creates more enemies than it neutralizes is black hole stupid.
A civil, well-reasoned argument I can agree with…
Because that’s already happened, and the result has been… nothing.
So far the American people seem to love dear leader more than they care about what America stands for or at least should stand for. And there’s a growing cottage industry in cheering this direction on, excusing it, and so forth.
So if we do not get the results we want we ratchet up the rhetoric until we fan the flames enough for something, anything to happen? And damn the results around the world?
From the Washington Times today"
After making the comparisons to HitStalPot…
"Mr. Durbin said. “I believe the torture techniques that have been used at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and other places fall into that same category.”
Can anyone tell me what the torture techniques at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib are?
Were you shackled to the floor and denied food and water for days? Did you have the option of leaving? Were you allowed to go to the bathroom? Were you denied any communication with your family for months or years? Get the fuck out of my face with this bullshit. Seriously. This is weak.
The FBI memos say “for more than 24 hours.” They also say that were forced to lie in their own shit. Did you see much of that at the Nabisco plant?
What did any of these people do to deserve this, by the way? What is the proof that any of them were guilty of anything? What have they even been accused of?
He didn’t do that. He said if you didn’t know who had committed some of these atrocities, you’d probably think it was some kind of oppressive regime. You wouldn’t guess that it was American soldiers. That’s a perfectly fair statement.
Neither I nor senator Durbin said that it was.
Get serious