Going on a tour to China, what to see/expect/do/prepare for?

In My Humble Opinion
1

About a month ago, I asked for advice on how to split the costs on a trip to Europe and got some great responses. Well, umm, we had a change of heart. I hope you can forgive us. Yesterday, I sent off the deposit check for a trip to China for all of us. So, at least we’re committed to one thing for sure and there’s no turning back.

We’re going in March on the 12 Day Historic China tour through China Focus:

There will be the 5 of us, two adults and 3 kids (ages 5, 7, and 13), and we’re looking for what to see/do/explore/avoid in the off times in the cities. Should we get kites in Tian’anmen Square? What about the shopping? Is the water unsafe to drink even in the hotels?

Thanks again! :smiley:

2

Water should be okay, but you can always get bottled if you’re worried.

Make sure you get those tiny tissue packs – it’s hard to get a napkin at a restaurant or a tissue box in a hotel.

And be prepared to do some deep squatting for the toilet facilities… :smiley:

3

Bottled water is safe. If you’re going with a reputable tour group, they should take you only to restaurants that have safe to drink water too.

I spent ten days in China two years ago. My [http://members.cox.net/3x3/China.htm]photos. Forgive the spartan web design.

Have a wonderful time in China–it’s a great experience.

4

Damnit, let’s try that again.

My photos.

Aargh, now I have to wait a minute to post again. So I’m typing this to kill time.

5

We were reading in one tour book about the lack of public toilets in China and the ones that are there you’d almost wish that they weren’t.

Thanks for sharing those beautiful pictures, Opus1!

One other question here. We were discussing clothing for the trip. I read somewhere at some point in the myriad of scraps of info about wearing more formal and modest clothing during the trip to the more historic places. I think there was something about covering up skin (no exposed shoulders, etc) and not wearing jeans. My partner loves his polyester athletic wear and wants to pack it to wear over there. It makes sense since it won’t wrinkle but if we need to wear Dockers and regular shirts generally, I would think that the sweats would be frowned on. Any opinions on that?

6

Don’t worry about it. Tourist attractions are in the business of making money. Also you will more than likely want to buy some clothing and/or apparel locally anyway. They make that shit over there, y’know.

7

I checked out your trip. Looks interesting. You’re also going to get a small taste of real china. You’re staying in okay hotels and taking nice trains instead of flying. I haven’t done the Mount Tai.

A little surprised they are taking you to Suzhou instead of a river town instead. Althought Suzhou is kinda a river town - just a huge one.

Only change I would recommend given the itinerary, is that you might not want to go to Suzhou. If you like Shanghai and want to wander around or rent bicycles, you might like that better than the 2 hour one way bus ride to Suzhou. Shanghai kinda blows in the “tourist site” department, but I think it’s a great place to wander.

The shanghai hotel they’ve got you in is out in the sticks, and not in “bustling downtown Shanghai.” Good thing is you’re close to the zoo if you want to see some giant panda’s in less than ideal conditions.

If you think you might want to explore Shanghai a bit, give some things you or the family like to do and I might be able to give some recommendations.

8

That’d be great ChinaGuy, if you could also recommend some restaurants (esp. a romantic one with a great view for when we leave the kids behind for a couple hours) would be wonderful.

I’ve also seen some tours that had folks up close and pretty much petting and hugging the pandas. Sounds risky albeit interesting. Is that something we could do at the zoo in Shanghai?

9

After a little while in China you may find you begin to miss ovens. Steamed bread just doesn’t do it and the fried stuff is more of a pastry. You will want breadlike products with brown crusts from an oven. You will find brown things in a Taiwanese bakery.

10

I absolutely love China, and have been back and back and back again.

But there are some negatives to China that are probably impolitic - forgive me, China Guy or other China residents/natives if I come over as insulting - but if you’ve never been there before, you should know this stuff so you’re not freaked out when you arrive.

First, it’s shonky: a lot of China looks run down. The streets have potholes in them. Many modern-ish buildings are about 90% finished, but the final touches we’re used to in the west just don’t get done. The plumbing sucks. It’s nowhere near as bad as other developing nations, such as India, but it’s still a bit shambolic. My Hong Kong Chinese friend said about Shanghai: “the hardware is good, but the software is bad”. By that she meant that the city has all the technology, but the human management behind it is still a bit of a mess. That said, amazingly, everything seems to work out in the end.

Secondly, it’s dirty; people litter and spit in the street a lot, and the cleaning industry is a trifle half-hearted. Lots of countryfolk don’t use diapers: the kids have a hole in the crotch of their pants, and just do their business through that, often in the street - last year I saw a mother getting her kid to take a dump in the middle of the Bund! :eek: Many Chinese people won’t touch food with their fingers, only chopsticks, and I think it’s because of the general grime around.

Thirdly, people will stare at you. In the urban centers you’ll be OK (though you’ll still find the odd bumpkin doing it there), but out in the countryside, it’s in-your-face gawping central. Be prepared. However much I tell myself it’s not rude but cultural, it’s difficult not to find it rude.

Fourthly, the driving sucks. Again, not as bad as other developing nations, but still a bit worrying. Lots of tailgating, ignoring road signs and lane markers, weaving in and out of oncoming traffic, etc.

That said, I want to reiterate how much I love it. Individuals you meet are friendly as anything; the culture is more rich than you can imagine; the sights are awesome; it’s amazing to be in a culture that’s so alien.

Words of advice: if they can’t do it already teach your kids to use chopsticks. Start today. They will pick it up really fast once they’re there, but it’s a good idea to give them a grounding beforehand: the advice I’ve heard is to give them a bowl of peanuts and keep them going until they can pick up a single peanut and eat it.

The food will not be like Chinese food you’ve had in the west, but it’s great nonetheless. With a tour group you’ll probably have a big shared feast ordered for you most of the time, but much of the best food I’ve had in China has been unbelievably cheap, bought on the street - friend noodles are particularly good.

Also, there may be occasions when you or your family will have to use squatter toilets. The trick is to stand with your heels flat on the footrests, leaning your chest way forward against your knees, and hook your pants forward out of the way. Might be a good idea (not to mention hilarious) to go through this with your kids too. They sell those little packs of tissues everywhere - I recommend you always have a pack or two with you for unscheduled potty breaks.

You can get most basic medicines in China, as well as antibiotics over the counter - much of it generic and ridiculously cheap. Watson’s, a Hong Kong drug store, is all over China these days, and will sell most of what you need. However, if you’ve got some high-falutin’ necessities or kids’ medicines, bring them with you. You might also want to bring some of that no-water handwash.

Bargain like hell for your souvenirs - always with a smile and a joke, though. Read up about “face” and do some research on the history of the country - the Lonely Planet travel guide is excellent, with lots of background information.

For more delightful observations of this sort, I shall again post a link to my travelogue covering my travels in China last year.

You’re going to have an amazing time! I’m so envious.

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Can do. You’ve got to give some parameters like budget, cusine, location, etc. You can get almost any kind of food in Shanghai except for good greek or mexican.

The zoo ain’t that great. You do get to see pandas pretty close, for as long as you want, and without a long line. The petting zoo stuff with pandas, well I’m not sure how you would do it. I don’t think you can in Shanghai. I’ve only seen it in smaller cities. I mentioned that as an example, if you give an idea of the things you or your family are really into, then I can make a recommendation. If you really want to see panda’s in China, then going to the zoo is your ticket. If you want something else, like the world’s absolutely best steamed crab dumplings, then I can send you to the right place.

12

I love Beijing, and hope to see other parts of China soon. Please let us know how your trip goes! I was there for two weeks last year, and liked it a lot.

  • Most Chinese speak very little English. The Lonely Planet guide is good, but having a map of any given city with both English and Chinese placenames is invaluble. Having an English-Chinese phrasebook is extremely helpful.

  • The food is excellent, even if you do not always know what you will be getting. It would be a sensible precaution to take along a course of ciprofloxacin antibiotic, and some Gravol for traveller’s diarrhea. You can get it there, but with a little difficulty.

  • Xiao Wang’s Home Chinese Restaurant (in Beijing) has some of the best food I’ve ever eaten.

  • The cities can be quite noisy and polluted.

  • You need to use chopsticks. There was a diagram on “how to use chopsticks” in my phrasebook. Chinese people found this hilarious. They also find it funny when you try to mime “diarrhea”.

  • If I went back to Beijing again, I would buy almost all of my clothing and suitcases there. The markets are great, you will see lots of stuff you want to buy. This may not apply to a tour, though.

  • Only once did a taxi driver try to rip me off in 30 rides. Souvenir sellers will often quote you high prices, so bargain. People will follow you in the streets trying to sell you stuff, some of it very nice. Feign disinterest, keep walking, and watch the price drop and drop again.

  • The touristy stuff is pretty interesting, so bring lots of digital camera memory.

  • Make sure you have a visa before going. These take a long time to process.

  • Not worth the aggro to drive in China; probably doesn;t apply to your tour.

13

Thanks China Guy, well, for budget, we’d like to keep it under 800 RMB for the meal. (By the way, when does one say RMB vs Yuan?) As for location, a rooftop restaurant or something with a view of the city would be perfect. As for cuisine, anything but seafood (I’m allergic, so not good).

As for other things, I’m sure that shopping is a big one. We’ve heard rumors of silk, hand-made tailored suits for less than $200. I’d also love to find a great musical instruments shop. As for the kids, an amusement park would be good. They also love the candies/sweets, so if you could recommend a shop/snack choice, that’d be great too. As for the where, well, it sounds that the cab fares are cheap enough where that won’t be an issue (however, getting there as a group might be?)

**
Dr_Paprika**, thanks for the excellent tips! We’ve got the audio cd in the car and the kids have already learned “ni hao” and “xie xie”. And I’ve just started the Rosetta Stone program. (I secretly hope that there’s a lot of pinyin around because the characters seem rather daunting.)

14

If you say the letters ‘r’ ‘m’ ‘b’ pretty fast it almost sounds like the chinese pronunciation.

For a drink only if the weather is clear (ha ha), go to the Grand Hyatt for a drink. IIRC it’s not stupidly expensive, and maybe $8 for a beer as a guide.
Cloud 9/Jinmao Tower
88 Century Boulevard
Shanghai
Tel: +86 (0)21 5049 1234
Metro: Lujiazui

On a clear day the Jinmao Tower, one of the world’s tallest buildings, boasts the best views of Shanghai. Go to one of the restaurants or bars of the Grand Hyatt, which occupies the top 30 or so floors.

The tower is on the Pudong side of the river, so the top floors afford staggering views across the Huangpu River to the Bund and beyond, taking in the vast expanse of the city, with its thousands of high-rise blocks. The whole thing looks like a toy model from the 87th floor, where you can enjoy a drink in the Cloud 9 bar. In overcast weather, you may find yourself above the clouds (or in them, with no views at all).

During the day, take the metro to Pudong, as taxis meet a lot of traffic trying to cross the river (and are almost impossible to come by when it rains). Later in the evening, however, and at weekends, a taxi is probably a better bet.

There is the New Heights bar and restaurant at 3 on the bund. This is the puxi or traditional Shanghai side of the river and opposite the Grand Hyatt. It’s probably $6-8 for a beer, and food isn’t stupidly expensive. You can probably get out of there for $100 or rmb800 for 2 if you don’t go wild. It’s easy to combine with sightseeing on the bund. Make sure you go in the Pudong Development Bank HQ (it’s the original HSBC HQ and spectacular).

I think the Peace HOtel and the jazz band is annoyingly cheezy, but some people love it.

Amusement parks would be the JinJiang Amusement Park. It’s got a freaking huge ferris wheel that made me a bit queasy when I went a few months ago. China bambina aged 6 loved the park, but it’s probably better for 10 year olds.
Jinjiang Amusement Park

I’m not a big shopper. There is the Silk King. Several branches in Shanghai, all showing a big poster of Hillary Clinton shopping (circa 1998). I’ve never shopped there but know many people who have. For a visitor, it’s probably a good bet:

Silk King (Zhensi Dà Wáng)

Address Tianpíng Lù 139

Location Xújiahuì

Transportation Metro: Hénán Zhong Lù

Phone Headquarters: 021/6282-1533

Frommer’s Review

Silk and wool yardage and a good selection of shirts, blouses, skirts, dresses, ties, sheets, and other finished silk goods have make Silk King one of the top silk retailers in Shànghai, and a favorite stop for visiting heads of state and other VIPs. Silk or wool suits can be custom tailored in as little as 24 hours. Silk starts around ¥100 ($13) per meter (3 1/4 ft.), while more delicate cashmere is almost 10 times that. Daily 9:30am to 10pm. There are several Silk King branches.

Address:
Phone: 54204956
WebSite:
Email:
Open Time:
Traffic: No 1 Subway, public buses 50, 131,704

Jinjiang Amusement Park is a large-scale modern amusement park in Shanghai opened in the ‘80s. With its advanced recreational facilities, like the single-ring slide-car, water surfing, single-rail car, wooden horse merry-go-round, revolving chairs in the air, louts pan, foot-peddled single track car, bumping cars, roller coaster, flying disc boat and laser shooting, attract a great number of tourists. Now, many new sports games have been added, such as high platform speed asjustable sliding, rock and roll sliding, 45℃ wave surfing, and massage pool. Visitors may choose their favorable items besides sightseeing and watching, finding pleasure in excitement and suspension and tempering their courage and increasing wisdom.

that’s a start. There are plenty more places, especially restaurants but we can revisit when you get closer to departure

15

Our cab-for-a-day guy in Beijing, who took us to the Great Wall, really appreciated a tip, but one time when I tried to tip an officially licensed taxi driver in Beijing he got upset and gave the tip back. Might be worth remembering!

16

Thanks for starting this thread. :slight_smile: The Mrs. & I are hoping to do a China trip, dovetailing with the Olympics in 2008, but didn’t know much about the whats and wheres beyond, uh, a big Wall. This should help.

17

Thanks for all the info, China Guy! There’s a lot to go on and I can’t wait!

18

UPDATE and a bit of quick panicking and some more questions.

China Focus voided our check and sent it back. I called them for the tour and told them I was sending in the check. Well, they’re on a “first come, first served” thing and although we had made our intentions known, a check with application came in before ours did. I found this out last week when I noticed that it had been two weeks and I still had the check outstanding in my register and called them up. We did some negotiating on another date but the more we learned, the less we liked. The trip on the way back home would have involved flying from Shanghai to Beijing then to SFO then to Denver then home. That’s a lot of stops, especially with kids.

Moreover, it seems that the more we looked into the tours and how they’re run, the less I liked what was going on. Sure, we’d see some of the great sights, but there were some…let’s call 'em shenanigans, going on. Frommer’s alerted me to a lot of them and so did some reviews about China Focus.

:eek:

So reading all of that and some of the reviews and learning that ignorance WAS bliss, dammit, we’re rethinking the trip. The idea of booking our own flights and doing some small land tours to the great wall, Forbidden City, etc might be for the best, but still feels a bit daunting.

  1. Pinyin. Is this enough to get by; if I give a cab driver information written in pinyin is it going to be enough?

  2. How do I go by getting a private (local) english-speaking tour guide for the cities we want to visit? (Xi’an, Beijing, Shanghai, and possibly Guilin)? (One concern is making sure we get on the right train/plane and get to the station/get tickets/etc).

  3. I would love to arrange it so we could meet a local family and learn how they live. I think it would be odd to just go up to a stranger and ask this, so how does one organize this as well?

  4. Where do I go to book tickets for internal flights from Beijing to Xi’an etc?

19

Oh, and we just booked the tickets to China with Northwest. For $800 pp we only have one stop in Tokyo on the way to Beijing. On the way home, we leave from Shanghai and stop in Tokyo too. Woohoo! I’m so excited and nervous and anxious at the same time.

20

Nope, and your chances of verbally repeating a location and having the taxi driver understand are slim to none. Your hotel should have “take me here” cards with the major sites printed in Chinese and English.

Are you white? If so, walking around any major site will yield at least a few offers from guides. That’s another thing you should probably know. As a white person you will constantly be bombarded by people trying to sell you stuff every tourist spot you go. When I say every spot, I mean every spot, including remote towers on the Great Wall.

I would work through your hotels. Hostels are a great option for this because they are used solely by travelers, and have services for that. It’s also a good option, because often the most cost effective and best option is getting 6-7 people together and hiring a guy with a van. As you have discovered, every tour you go on will bring you to places that simply are there to sell you stuff.

You should check into trains. An overnight train from Beijing to Shanghai will run you, if I remember correctly, 280 RMB (35 dollars) for a hard sleeper, compared with 900 for a plane ticket. Hard sleeper is fine (despite the name they still have padded beds), although you don’t have too much privacy. Soft sleep is about 400 rmb, but they are rooms of 4, so you would have to split up. Hard sleep is 6 per “room”, so you might end up with one stranger. Either way, you want to book in advance because these go pretty quick. Also, be sure you get on the fast train instead of the slow train. The fast train is about 11 hours from Beijing to Shanghai, and the slow is like 35.