The parallel isn’t between excess weight and curly hair. The parallel is between similar issues surrounding notions of “beauty” that make women do expensive and dangerous things to their bodies. Not to mention how these notions are passed on to their daughters.
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The parallel does not hold when you compare natural black hair with the issue of morbid obesity, true.
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But how many women- white women- do you know who LOATHE their bodies because they’re a size 10 and not a 2? Size 10 is not morbid obesity. Nor is 12 and probably not 14. I ordered something online yesterday and the site had 10 as Extra Large! Okay, I’m gettin’ off the track here.
. It’s all about self-loathing.
I recently did jury service and one of my fellow jurors had long, lovely natural dreadlocks (braids?). I cringed every time I watched one of the other white women picking them up and touching them and stroking them, as if they weren’t even a part of her. They’d keep it up despite her obvious discomfort and even when asked not to:
Black juror: Please don’t do that.
White juror (continuing to stroke it): But it’s lovely!
Black juror: Yes, but please don’t. You wouldn’t like it if I did that to you.
Cue white juror getting offended and huffing about how they were only trying to compliment her on her hair!
Oh God, of course: I would never imagine touching even my closest friend’s hair without asking permission first (and why on earth would I want to do that, anyway?). The though that she was talking about *strangers *never occured to me - I though she meant that black women don’t like to have their hair touched, period.
the following review is simply my opinion. I personally don’t know Chris Rock or his motives, but I reserve the right to make reckless assumptions about Hollywood stars and their intentions
I hated this movie. I believe Chris Rock is one of the worst, most disrespectful interviewers I have ever cringed through. He never asked the most interesting questions, and when he did stumble upon an interesting question, he mucked it up and didn’t have the sense to fix it and get the answer (“So you went your whole life before relaxing your hair, Ms. Angelou?” “Well, not my whole life! I’m still alive!” — geez, it would have been great to hear her answer why she waited 75 years before relaxing her hair.)
When my husband and daughter and I weren’t cringing, we were laughing at his slick ass. Look how carefully the Indian weave makers prepared and packaged their product. I guess it was supposed to be the equivalent when he dragged that garbage bag full of kinky hair from place to place to make a point that black hair is undesirable. Perhaps if he packaged it and presented it to the right people, he would find stylists from Vogue eager to buyhis ‘black hair’. And I realize he did it for laughs, but the laughs were cheap and phoney (IMHO).
Most black women I know would never in a million years pay 1,000 for a weave. They have LaDonya down the street do it for 100, and LaDonya is a fucking expert who has been braiding since she was 5. Further more, LaDonya has her little sister/apprentice helping her, and you get done in half the time. But even if you have to sit the full 6 hours, that’s fine…it’s a part of the culture to sit and talk over hairdos. And, surely, there are some upper class women who may sit in a salon for a thousand bucks, but I can’t imagine anyone would go broke over the priviledge when there are so many experts working for cheap in the hood. If you stroll down 125th street in Harlem, you will have African women in full Dashiki, fresh from the motherland offering to give you genuine African hair weaving for under 100.
He is on the money about a few things. Kids do get relaxers way too early (I have never heard of young as two, but I don’t doubt it). And black women don’t generally like their hair touched when they have a new style done. Boyfriends can ususally touch the hair when a fancy or fragile style isn’t in.
I’m just gonna come out and say it…I think Rock made this movie to exploit society’s ideas about black women. I think some folks really do believe that black women will spend the rent to buy a 1,000 dollar weave. I think some folks really do believe that black women as a rule, loathe themselves and want white people’s hair. From my understanding of black women who weave/relax, that is not the case.
The women were nice enough to give clear and candid answers to Rock’s questions. When the scientist asked Rock why women would subject their hair to the aluminum eating chemicals, Rock answered, “because they want to look like white women.” WTF? Not a single interviewee told him that. Why do a documentary asking black women about their ideas about hair if you are going to just draw a random conclusion in the end?
The nonsense continued in his pursuit for awkward and cheap laughs:
Chris Rock : “Hey, do you ever feel like someone is going to come up and steal your hair?”
Pretty Little Girl from India : “Uh…no…”
CR : “Well, if you see a black woman; RUN!”
PLGfI : “…”
He kept trying to make a point about white people being the ones to benefit from the sale of weave. So what? I mean, the biggest hair empire he found happened to be black folks, but so what if white folks make the money. Blacks have to sell weave? We are just individuals. We may decide to be doctors or lawyers or shopkeepers or ball players or nurses or nurses’ aides. We don’t have to get into the weave business just because we buy a lot of weave. That is nonsense.
But I would have forgiven all of the nonsense and chalked it up to his desire to make folks laugh, if he had spent more than 6 seconds discussing natural hair. He didn’t though. Natural hair is HUGE in the black community. Just because it didn’t quite make it to Hollywood doesn’t mean it isn’t big. Afros did not play out in the 70s. They are alive and well today. Not as much as dreadlocks, low cuts, mohawks and zulu knots and just old fashioned braids.
Speaking of which, how does Rock explain ‘braids’ as weave if it is all about ‘being like white women.’ * There is such a thing as ‘good hair/bad hair’ complex in the black community*. Not as intense as it used to be (IMO) but it exists. Weave is not the answer to that complex (IMO). Weave and relaxers offer many styles in a culture that loves the versatility of hair. The point is not to have hair like white women. I believe he tried to make that seem like the point. So, to me, his film not only missed the point but also came off as exploitive.
This is one of those films that I hated before I even saw it, based on his interviews when he was promoting it. So, I guess I went in with a negative bias. Boy, we really hated this film.
*I sincerly apologize for over-qualifying everything, but it is important that I don’t come acrosss as trying to speak for all black folks. I can only speak for myself, and of course, I may be wrong
Well, I was going to look for it, Nzinga, now I’m not so sure!
I remember a few years ago I read a book on race which said that white women may give offense to black women if they brush their hair or run their fingers through it too much in their presence. I was totally surprised by that, and don’t know if it’s true, but if there is a black lady around I try not to go touching my hair too much.
My SO borrowed this film from Netflix. Although not an active viewer I caught a fair amount of it, and was even fascinated by portions. And – well – Rock presented a picture thoroughly alien to me; I am not only white but male, and not only male but one who neither really cares about nor makes any effort to style his hair. (I get a haircut every few months. Wouldn’t be so bad if I didn’t have thick, full, quickly-growing hair, eventually making me look like a redneck Einstein before I’m finally dragged to the barber. Was the joke about how much weight I’ve lost – looking at the clumps of hair piled around the chair – ever funny?)
Nzinga, Seated’s comments are well-taken about unrealistic ideas the film may have painted. Looking around online, it does look as if weaves are much more likely to cost in the low hundreds than anywhere near $1000. Still – it just seems so bizarre – not really even the weaves so much as the chemical relaxing. Hazardous, painful, scarring. It simply isn’t possible for me to empathize with someone who would use that on a permanent basis, even though I fully trust they are making a utility-maximizing decision.
It’s tempting for me to say I’d shave my head rather than relax or weave, but, well, how can I say? Those are shoes I can’t wear. What a strange glimpse to get, anyway.
Really? I could see someone holding that as an idiosyncratic pet peeve, but I’d find that a surprising widely-held trait. Now, someone who would reach out and feel someone *else’s[/] hair without permission … well, I don’t know how someone would feel that an appropriate thing to do. That’d bother even me.
I saw this movie and started a thread on it last year. Here it is if you want to check it out.
I do agree that a lot of these things seem strange if you’ve never dealt with them. I have thick straight/wavy-ish hair (actually, I’m South Asian, so it’s pretty close to the weave hair they showed in the movie). I’ve never straightened my hair, but sometimes I think I probably would if I had curly hair. I really like my hair the way it is. Though is that because of cultural influences or just because I like what I see when I look in the mirror?
I feel the same way about weight issues. I’m lucky enough to be very naturally slender, so I’ve never dieted either. Some of the lengths that women go to to be very thin seem insane to me, but again, maybe I’d be doing them too if I were heavier.
Nzinga, in the other thread, I think you mentioned that you didn’t like the idea that the movie was saying, oh, black people just want to look white, when traditionally the hair of mixed race people tends to be the most desirable. It does sometimes feel a little patronizing to hear white people who just take for granted that of course anyone non white wants to look white.
Chris Rock would have done a better job if he’d challenged the notion that natural hair is a professional liability. Because I think a lot of black people project their own hair hangups to the rest of society when they shouldn’t. The permed-out girl who was saying she couldn’t imagine anyone hiring the fro-wearing girl really doesn’t have any rational reason for saying this. Plenty of corporate, professional black women have natural hair, and this applies to kinky textures as well as wavy ones.
The idea that you won’t be able to succeed in America unless you straighten your hair is commonly believed, but I haven’t seen first hand any evidence that this ia as pervasive a problem as its made out to be.
I don’t know, you with the face. I know in another thread someone cited resumes getting more responses if they had a more traditionally white name associated with them (John vs. Tyrone) even if the resumes were identical. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was something similar going on with hair. It’s not that no one can succeed with natural hair. I think it’s more that it’s one thing working against you.
Whence does come such a strong desire to straighten and style one’s hair? Weight seems different in the sense that it can imply (at extremes) lower attractiveness; worse health; less mobility; uncomfortable or embarrassing physical situations, such as having to ask for a table rather than a booth at a restaurant. Hair, on the other hand, is almost entirely ornamental – and what kind of hair an individual finds attractive varies quite a lot through the population – so “strive for good hair” has less content than “strive for a healthy weight”. It seems to me more like “wear attractive clothes”.
But on second thought, I think I’m really phrasing a very broad question about what makes people willing to spend money and effort to look “more attractive”. I’ll have to mull on this some more.
Screening out black candidates based on names is not comparable to favoring a black candidate with straight hair over a black candidate with natural hair. I really don’t think a racist employer would even pay attention to hair. In fact, I’d be surprised if they noticed it at all. People who are overly fixated on race tend to paint “the other” with a broad, heavy-handed brush; in their minds, all black people look the same, and differences in hair texture–just like skin color–don’t merit any special attention. They are just black.
Freudian Slit, thanks for the link to your thread. I had the idea there might have been something on SDMB about this film already, but I started this thread on my Blackberry, and searching on that thing is really a pain.
Holy crap, Freudian Slit, it was on like Chaka Khan in that thread! I had forgotten that this topic almost gave me a nervous breakdown before I even saw the film! I literally couldn’t walk away from that thread, even when I really tried to. WTH.
Equipoise asked me to come back to that thread and post what I thought after I ‘deigned’ to watch the film. Instead of bumping that zombie, I guess I’ll just restate my review here. Hated it.
I just read Freudian’s thread on this film from last year. Wow… quite a heated discussion.
One thing that stood out, and that I believe is 99% true:
This is one of my truisms: “No woman likes her own hair.”
If you like your hair, I’m happy for you. As I said, I have stick-straight hair. For years I had it permed, wanting those soft ringlets all over my head, or else the long Pre-Raphaelite romantic cascade… no dice. It just didn’t work. I worked with a Hispanic woman who used to get her black hair dyed brown and straightened- she wanted hair like mine! Aarrggh! In its natural state her hair was lush, curly, soft, and her gray was coming in as perfectly spaced highlights- it was the hair I wanted. I remember saying to her, “Do you know there are women who go to the salon every six weeks and pay $150 to get hair that looks like yours does naturally??” Oh, the irony.
*Wanted to add this, but the edit time expired: *
Re the film and documentaries in general: He didn’t cover the whole subject from all possible angles and he didn’t ask all the questions that could have been asked. This subject and its implications are vast and any film or book that attempts to cover it all and satisfy everyone’s expectations is going to fail. The film DID expose some interesting situations and facts. The interpretation of those situations and facts… well, no film can do everything. Very thought-provoking and worth seeing IMHO.
I used to think this back when I watched Siskel (of blessed memory) and Ebert: when reviewing a movie, you need to review the movie that was made, not the movie you think should have been made or the movie YOU would have made.
I don’t think I necessarily agree that no-one sees untreated black hair as being non corporate / unprofessional but I too would have been fascinated to see the question considered and heard some viewpoints on the subject. As it was, I felt it was lurking at the edges of a lot of the interviews, such as when Al Sharpton said how he encouraged James Brown to straighten his hair so he’d be taken more seriously in his business dealings.
I will add though that even today in womens’ magazines I’ve seen dozens of articles recommending (amongst other dressing tips of course) the importance of having ‘professional’ looking hair to get on in business. Professional was then described in terms of being words like neat, sleek, polished and shiny. I remember quite a few times reading stuff like that and thinking “… oh”. Then reflecting that I guess I’d better work at all the other stuff, then. Eventually I decided it was all shite to fill up blank pages in the first place, of course but it did have an impact. Again, not seeking to compare my situation to that of black women deciding whether to treat their hair, just explaining why such articles jumped out at me.
Nzinga, Seated thanks for sharing your perspective, both here and in the earlier thread that I’m sorry I missed first time around. I especially appreciate it 'cos some of those posts would have bugged the hell out of me. I enjoyed your thoughts on Rock as an interviewer and find it very interesting that his findings don’t jibe with your own experiences or those you know. I had a think about your annoyance with him questioning Maya Angelou earlier and half agreed with you. I think he could have got his answer but I also think Maya Angelou for whatever reason came off like she didn’t want to answer in the first place and pounced on the wording as an excuse to get out of doing so, albeit getting out of it with some charm. I guess he could have followed it up with “hahaha. But seriously, why NOW with the weave, Maya?” but I think it would have made for a less relaxed conversation. Still, I take the point that we’ll now never know if he’d have asked the question more gracefully in the first place.
If they’re talking about fiction, then I support this idea 100%. But for documentaries where you’re in effect saying of a situation “this is how it is”, omissions can count for more. If nothing else, not giving any space covering the large numbers of black women who do wear their hair naturally, not to mention the many blogs that give tips and inspiration kind of gives the impression that yes, the vast majority are running around giving up hundreds of hours and hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars on painful, damaging hair treatments without any viable alternatives in sight. It’s not just a missing piece in its own right, its absence distorts the whole picture.
But might they not interpret a woman with an Afro as being less likely to conform to corporate culture, even unconsciously? I’m not saying that they even consciously say, “Let’s not call in Tyrone for an interview.” Maybe it’s more like you get hundreds of resumes on your desk and you glance over them and you sort of think a little more highly of John Smith or Peter Jones because they sound familiar. Similarly, you might see a black woman who’s got straight hair and just think she looks “nice” because it’s familiar, whereas you see the woman with natural hair and start thinking “unfamiliar” or “scary.”
Well first off, an afro is just one style; there’s no requirement that to wear your hair natural, you have to wear it in a fro. But even if it were, what’s so verociously anti-corporate about hair like this? There are too women out there who wear their hair in this way and doing well in their careers for me to believe permed hair is more pleasing to Corporate America.
No doubt that there are some people out there who think like that, but not enough to justify a lifetime of perming and weave-wearing. Just like a lot of white women diet themselves into oblivion and subject themselves to plastic surgery and blame it on men’s preferences, a lot of black women will blame corporate America on what they do to their hair. The mere existence of a few men who prefer Kate Moss-like physiques over Beyonce’s is not enough to explain why anorexia exists. I think black women, as a group, haven’t caught up with the rest of society when it comes to seeing the beauty of their own hair.
Good point.