Forty? FOUR HUNDRED! And don’t fret brother. That Jesus, illuminated with xenon bulbs, will protect you, too. You will be saved if for no other reason that you mock salvation! Be patient, the day is near!
In the meantime, may I ask you what is wrong with posting about an important issue facing us? Something appears in the news that sheds further light on the subject and I share it. What is wrong with that, other than the fact that you evidently don’t like the subject brought up. To which I would ask, why?
Also, I don’t you recall you offering a similar post to some of the people who post repeatedly about WMDs, Bush lying, etc. Or did I miss it?
Oh, come on, now. You didn’t want to share it, you wanted to pick a fight over it. Else why did you post about it in the Pit, with the title “Good News For Illegal Immigration Apologists: more facts to ignore and rationalize”?
Then what was all of the justification of your usage of the term “brown” for?
Let’s recap, in order, shall we?
I demonstrated that your extrapolations in your OP were statistically invalid. Very.
I commented that the brown people weren’t the problem you’d like for them to be. They’re aren’t.
Key Lime Pie stated that I had accused you of racism in this thread. I hadn’t.
I responded that I had in no way referred to you as a racist in my prior post, but that you were one.
I took a guess at what he might have construed as being said accusation. No clue if I was accurate or not, as he hasn’t clarified yet.
You go off on some tangent about me taking offense with your use of the word “brown”, when I never implied that such offense had been taken on my part.
As an aside, I don’t think that peeing in a well full of botulinum would be considered poisoning it.
My post #92 was in response to your post #91, in which you mentioned racist (“although he is one”) and the “‘brown people’, that’s what he calls them”. I was simply replying to those two points. What is not clear about that. The post immediatley followed yours.
What culture would that be? And don’t say the American Culture because that’s a wide umbrella covering a lot of territory.
Personally, I like having lots of cultures and languages. Recently, one of the juniors at my school brought egg rolls her mom had made to a school dance. It was a big hit. They even sold better than the rolled up rice krispie bars with the chocolate inside.
Ya know, my geography textbook describes Canada as a mosaic as opposed to a melting pot and I have to admit that I much prefer that imagery.
And on preview: Illegal immigration is not an important issue, it’s an inflammatory issue.
Posting it is sharing it. Actually, I almost posted it in GD, but I like the title and didn’t think it GD appropriate. I don’t expect to convert any of the usual suspects, so I figured I’d just throw it out and see the contortions. Also, I didn’t plan on being around to contribute much until tomorrow, but some plans got cancelled.
Sorry, it is the American culture. And what pray tell, is so bad about that? Why is every other culture within the larger American culture so wonderful and precious, but our own is not worthy of preservation? Do you not find that odd?
Now, true, the American culture does include lots of smaller sub cultures. But the mosaic/melting pot debate is largely a semantic one. We talk about a melting pot, but what we have is a mosaic. That’s the way it’s always been, even up to including the Ozzie and Harriet 1950s.
The two concepts aren’t mutually exclusive. And 12,000,000 people sneaking into our country, costing us billions, putting strains on our hospitals and schools, driving down wages for our own less-skilled workers, unchecked for communicable diseases or criminal records is a BIG DEAL. I truly do not see how you can conclude otherwise.
Yeah, and you’re still dumb as wood. May I ask you a question? What is this infatuation you have with “trolls”? You’ve called me this before and posters who don’t even like me defended me to that accusation. So, what’s the infatuation? What is your definition of troll? If it jives with the one the board has, and you are right, I would have been banned by now, right? So why hasn’t that happened. Can it be that you are just exercising your pie hole and don’t know what the fuck you are talking about?
By trolling, we mean the posting of inflammatory comments for the sole purpose of getting a rise out of people. If we feel your primary goal as a poster is to make people mad, you’ll quickly find yourself on the road to banning. Similarly, if we feel your primary reason for being here is to complain about the board and/or the moderators, you may be invited to go find another board that is more to your liking. On the flip side, the fact that a poster consistently makes you mad doesn’t automatically make them a troll.
Found here: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=365973
You’ve admitted making inflammatory remarks to get a rise out of people. Hell, you bragged about it in the OP, with the popcorn bit, and you confirmed it in the part I quoted above. You like to piss people off. You like attention. You like beating dead horses. You’re a troll.
I’m just saying, if you start off your thread with a swipe at your perceived enemies, don’t act surprised when people react to the hostility in your OP instead of the content.
I will say, in your defence, that Oakminster’s posts are exactly why I thought lifting the rule against calling people trolls was a bad idea.
Hell, Oakminster, I post things that make people angry, and I’m not a troll. An important consideration is whether a poster does it only to provide a cover for abusive behavior (or prompt it on the part of others), or if there’s some honestly-held, if repulsive and ignorant, conviction about a real issue.
I think it’s probable that magellan01 sincerely believes many of the things he says about illegal immigration (some, I’m not so sure about). The greatest pretense lies in his contention that he wants anything resembling a productive discussion of the matter, a pretense he seems to be in the process of dropping. As I said before, I think he uses these threads to hang out a shingle, just to assert that his is the name to trust for all your foreigner-fearing needs. That’s why they show up so regularly, and why he has so little regard for their content. The point isn’t to convince anybody, and in fact magellan01 has no use for anyone susceptible to the facts and logic some posters manage to sneak into the conversation. The point is to attract the one or two lost souls encountering the thread who don’t need convincing because they already hate all the right people and ideas, and who will recognize in him a kindred spirit, perhaps even (because of the courage with which he pseudonymously withstands the typed derision of others) someone to look up to. They may not post in the thread, but they might e-mail him or catch up with him elsewhere, and then he’s got another friend.
Think of these threads as a kind of personals ad: “SDMB poster, male, nativist, seeks same for moonlit patrols along ill-defended border. Interest in sports a plus, interest in protecting the nation’s vital bodily fluids a must.” That kind of thing.
As for the latest desultory attempt to saddle illegal immigrants with all the ills of the age, I’ll just go with this, from here(Edited for length and clarity):
Thanks for your polite response to my question which could have been interpreted as rude. That shows real class.
For the record, I find your ideas to be xenophobic and repulsive, and your OP to be little more than trolling. And this from a person who is undecided on the illegals issue.
But your response to me was classy, and for that I thank you.
Well, obviously, you can make whatever laws you want. Canada’s not really a good example, though, because although Canada does have a temporary worker program, it also has citizenship based on birth in Canada. So, any children of those Canadian temporary workers born in Canada would be Canadian citizens.
Now, the German law also provided for temporary residence, at first, but that was changed. The problem with setting up temporary worker programs, really, is, first, that for jobs other than seasonal work (like farming work), the business needs workers year round, and it’s better to have somebody who was working there continue to work there, rather than spending the time and expense to train a new person and get them familiar with the job. Second, the employee sets up a life in the new place, gets familiar with the new area, makes friends, and generally wants to stay. So making somebody go back after 8 months is hard on both the employer and employee. For reasons like that, Germany changed the law and set up a more permanent right of residence.
I don’t see making English the official language as making any change to American culture, to be honest.
Ah. This is a seperate matter entirely. I think you should add “only provide official documentation and citizenship details in English” to your list; just “make it the official language” suggests that’s the only difference you want.
That said, you seem to have an odd idea of functioning in society. Surely both illegal and legal immigrants do function in society? They work. They buy products. In the case of the latter, they pay tax. That’s what I’d consider to be functioning in society. It seems as though your definition is something along the lines of “Can I talk to them?”, which is a poor though not totally invalid use. How is it that immigrants are unable to function in society?
Thanks for posting this. Has our OP acknowledged that the great majority of the naturalized have proven their knowledge of English?
In Harris County (Houston) our ballots often include Amendments to the Texas Constitution & City or County Bond issues. They are not written in “English”–but some English-like dialect designed to confuse even native speakers. So our ballots are printed in English, Spanish & Vietnamese.
As you pointed out, many legal non-citizens need to use government forms. It’s useful to print them in the needed languages.
Most of the multi-lingualism that disturbs the xenophobes comes from private businesses. People have a right to do business in the languages that their customers prefer. Some of the customers need to send money home on payday. Others came from Mexico City to patronize the high-end shops at the Galleria.
I don’t have a dog in this fight (or more accurately, I don’t have the stamina to withstand an argument), but what is so wrong with leaning on Mexico in some way(s) to get it to clean up its act?
All I ever hear is “oh, it’s so corrupt”–ok. What can we do (if anything-there has to be something) to make it a better place for Mexicans?–whom I think should stay in Mexico and visit/ trade with “us”. If regarding Mexico as a parasite nation makes me xenophobic conservative, I’ll deal with the surreality of that. It’s easy to characterize the position that way, but it’s not accurate.
Certainly there is racism present in some of the dealings with illegals (and legals, come to that), but it is NOT the sole or even the primary reason for people to look askance at illegal immigration and its impact on our economy and society.
I suggest you try to learn more about México. If all you hear is “oh, it’s so corrupt” then you know very little about the country. Corruption is a problem, but I really don’t think it is a defining one. Although it is apparently one that is used often and vigorously by Mexico critics/bashers in your country and very much so by the racists amongst them.
Oh? When clean water is not available to all citizens? There are shanty towns outside of major cities where plumbing does not exist? Nope-no cite, but I have read that in mainstream media (I really don’t spend my time with much else, barring BBC, and that is mainstream as well). Please, show me where Mexico is helping the urban underclass, the uneducated, the rural population. I’m not being snarky-if there are solid programs out there to help women get educated, to slow the birth rate, to address basic hygiene and public health issues, I’d (and others here) would like to know.
Are you seriously saying that law enforcement and social support WORK in Mexico? That schools actually teach things? NPR did a series on immigration and schools. There was a boy who went to kindergarten here in a Chicago suburb, but mom took the family back to Mexico (she was illegal, IMS). He has not progressed in school-not because of a lack of innate ability, but due to a lack of initiative on the part of the schools. The mom was very critical of the Mexican school system. Is she wrong? I am asking.
I don’t say these things to criticize a country baselessly-these are major concerns. Why should America clean up Mexico’s mess? Clean up your damned mess. You want us to welcome immigrants from Mexico? You(Mexico) educate them, house them, feed them-help them be the best peoples they can be. Why is that xenophobic? How is that racist? Canada doesn’t expect us to take in their poor. A facile remark, but seriously-why do we have to help Mexico at all?
More thoughts spurred by this thread:
If I wanted to live in France-I would work hard to learn French, and speak it-badly to be sure, but the effort would be there. Sure, it would be humiliating (just vacationing over there showed me how ignorant of the language I am-I took German), but I struggled. I deal with illegals/ immigrants almost daily. Most speak no English. Some get mad that I don’t speak Spanish. I think that’s a bit much, frankly. I can see getting frustrated that communication breaks down, but angry at me that I don’t speak their language? They’re not supposed to be here and they’re demanding special treatment? WTH?
I don’t have any answers. But IMO: America is (supposedly) the land of opportunity for those who come here legally. I have no problem with immigration-I have a problem with people collasping on us, straining our resources and then resenting the dominant culture here.
Only in America is it possible to made to feel bad for wanting some rules to immigration, to put limits on influx and outflow. It boggles my mind. Quotas seem to be perhaps subtley racist, so I am not sure what the answer is. The current approach isnt’ working. I am tired of the whole “the immigrant is an innocent, searching for Freedom” stereotype. Immigrants are many things, some good, some bad-they’re just people. Some (probably most) want a better life, but some want better opportunities for crime as well. That’s human nature. Whether those stats in the OP are valid or accurate or not, I am glad there is some attempt to tabulate this kind of stuff.
We haven’t even begun the issue of the drop-out rates of Hispanic kids (especially girls)–which society pays for over and over again and keeps them in a lower class; a self-perpetuating process…