Good vs. Evil: Are They Really Balanced?

Why should they be? They’re not cosmic forces. They’re the moral construction humans put on events.

Because we move the line.

I suppose that’s your point…

You mean an uneasy detente like democratic government?

-Eben

I’d say that’s it exactly.

I remember supervising a group or reasonably bright and ambitious people - one of the points I’d make from time to time was, “the most selfish thing you can do is help someone.” Some seemed to really get that and understand. I think, in general, that rings true outside of work as well.

And as easy as destruction is, as noted in the OP, I find a real and abiding optimism that not only are we not all dead, but there is less slavery, less sexism, less racism, more freedoms, greater understanding into what makes us happy and successful… than at most any period in the past. I used to despair in much the same way as the OP. Y’know - there’s genocide in Darfur. Why’s that news? Because it isn’t happening all over the place…

It’s human nature, I think, to look at and even dwell on what we can do better. I’d submit that sometimes it’s a very noble trait. One I rather like. There’s a lot of good things happening, too.

If I was able - I’d buy the OP a drink. :slight_smile:

a) I am glad to hear the majority disagrees. Perhaps I am too cynical. If you’ve ever fought for a cause, or for justice, you will see where I am coming from. How do you teach your kids to do right when all around them everyone has some angle on how to trample the next guy to get ahead? Everyone has a hidden agenda. Don’t even think about your fellow man. Do unto others BEFORE someone does it to you, right?

b) Someone posted about crap rising up in management, for example. This is a perfect example. We all know the Peter Principle, but no one does anything about it. All managers know what’s right, but they reject it. If they’d open their eyes, they’d see what is going on right under their noses. But, it’s easier to go through life with your eyes closed. That is why evil wins time and time again in the ins and outs of an average life.

We all laugh at the three monkeys “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil…” thing on bumper stickers and T-shirts, I’m sure. Not sure where that comes from, but the real truth is the T-shirt that added “have no fun”. Thus, ignoring rules is easy and evil in the big picture. It means you don’t give a crap about the impact of your actions, and we should all do whatever the heck we want. That’s chaos. That is evil. And, that is the law of the corporate jungle - even if you’re NOT even trying to climb the corporate ladder! I am deeply disappointed in human kind. At least, all other members of the animal kingdom have an excuse. We don’t. Man was suppose to be better than, say…pigs!

Wish John Lennon’s “instant karma” would come alomg to keep us all in line. Instead, no good deed goes unpunished. :frowning:

More like certain types of New Age thinking. It’s certainly not what Judeo-Christianity teaches, and I doubt that any Islamic scholars would espouse such a view either.

I believe Zoroastrianism believes good and evil are equally balanced (but good is still fated to win in the end).

Good or evil are subjective. a muslim who blows himself and the the patrons up in a cafe is evil to us. But he is a hero in Iraq.
We are bragging about our soldiers in Iraq. If it were your frontdoor kicked down in the middle of the night ,you might have a different opinion.

I’ve never personally seen good or evil.

I just see people doing things for or to each other.

What is good or evil is beyond subjective. It’s just a tool to motivate people based entirely on the latest fad.

If you’re the king, you label the people across the river ‘evil’, so the serfs will believe it’s OK to slaughter them all. Beyond just ‘OK’. Downright necessary. The local gods even want you to, nay demand you do it. They’re all demons, every man, woman and child. Kill them all.

If you need examples of this, you need go no further than a bible. Slaughter them all, because god sez so. Of course, slaughtering children, even infants is ‘Good’ because GOD ALMIGHTY told you to do it. Babies are evil.

Almost everyone here is getting good and evil mixed up with order and chaos.

It’s true that many good things are constructive, and many evil things are destructive, but certainly not all of them are.

Freedom, for example, is something that most of us would agree is a good thing, but is it not a chaotic force? Totalitarian secret police are pretty good at imposing order, even though they’re evil. Similarly, mafias are evil criminal organizations, but they are well-ordered on the inside.

As for balance of the concepts, that’s just meaningless; it’s different every day and in every society. That’s not to say, however, that I don’t believe in an objective good and objective evil, but real people aren’t somehow fine-tuned to produce an overall 50-50 combination. And why would anyone even want this to be so; wouldn’t you rather have a perfectly good world? After all, that’s the whole point of good: it’s the best outcome for everyone.

A theoretical angel would be 100% good and a devil 0%, but in real life there’s just one guy at 23% over his life we call evil, one at 55% we call average, and another at 82% we call good.

Everybody knows that ‘conventional wisdom’ doesn’t really exist.
Some say it’s just common sense.
Nobody knows the trouble I seen.

Or is it possible there is an objective balance? Perhaps the short term evil of killing you beloved next door neighbor prevented him from having an experience next week making him the next Hitler.

However I don’t buy a word of the philosophy I just spouted as I recognize I could make the exact same bullshit argument replacing “the next Hitler” with “cure cancer.” However for balance to be preserved that second one must occur as well…

You know what, screw it that philosophy pretty much dictates such a convoluted intertwining of the ideals of fate and free will I’m not even going to touch it.

So take what you will from this post which was probably a bad idea to post.

What the hell, I’ll argue for Christianity:

Nope. Good is the power, evil is only a corruption of that power. God is allowing evil to occur - for now - because He judges the free will that enables evil to occur to be valuable enough to justify the temporary pains of evil.

Nature isn’t good or evil. It just is. But people are indeed naturally inclined towards evil because evil serves the self.

Partial agreement, partial disagreement. Humans can never undo their own evil - this is the cause of the great divorce between God and humankind.

But God can undo evil - that was the entire purpose of Jesus, who became a human for the sole purpose of paying for the sins of humanity.

No it can’t. Evil disguised as good is simply evil. Moreover, the “virture” in your argument is kindness. To be good is not always to be kind. Just ask any surgeon, dentist, drill instructor or coach.

I like this post, though. Lots to contemplate! :smiley:

In this post, I will think of good and evil as nothing more than social constructs, that of the intent behind human interaction. Benevolence and malice are never accidental, but there are often incidents where malice is perceived where none was actually intended. And that is rarely the case with benevolence. Compare how often you get thanked for something you accidently did to how often you get scoffed at or scolded for something completely accidental.

A common problem is when malevolence is incorrectly perceived and then someone responds to it, to “teach them a lesson.” Evil is very cyclical this way, because the first act of “revenge” is perceived as the initial attack, to which they counter-attack.

I have dealt with a substantial Assholes-In-Charge scenario in my previous job. I was bullied and threatened, I complained, the boss did nothing, then I was fired because the boss didn’t like that I had been applying and interviewing for a new job. The bully was deliberately malicious, and not shy about admitting it. But, when I left that place, I had every reason to do something to “get back at” them. I even had their key and cell phone, which I could have done major damage, had I been childish and vengeful. But I did nothing. I am allowing them to destroy themselves with their own rage and cruelty. The company is much like a living organism and the hatred, anger, and cruelty of those who remain will destroy the company. I was so tired of getting beaten down by that environment, but I knew that any attempt to teach them a lesson would only inspire the next attack, and I wouldn’t put it past that bully coworker to seek out my home and do some vandalism. So, I absorbed their final punches and walked away, which was, in my opinion, a tremendous good deed. The cycle of evil ended because I took all of the punches and simply walked away. Having felt good about ending the cycle, I didn’t feel emotionally tormented by it, either. I didn’t come out in the end as the “loser,” I was the “one on whom the cycle of evil died.”

But I would say that evil is at a disadvantage when the two go head-to-head. Evil is driven by anger and the selfish desire to feel superior. Evil is desperate. Evil is a product of weakness. When people are truly losers, they resort to evil in order to climb back up. Unfortunately, it often works for them, but that doesn’t make it anything other than pathetic.

Evil people need to frequently feed on the emotions of other people, too. That’s a high maintenance lifestyle. A person who prides themselves on being evil (and I’ve met such people) have to constantly maintain that reputation and assert their worthiness by being the most ornery cock in the flock. Then the evil person finds themselves surrounded by intimidated people, which has got to be incredibly boring. The constant anger takes its toll physically as well. Angry people often cite stress as the cause of their anger, but their own anger actually creates stress by affectign their health and creating stress among the people around them. Evil is very self-destructive.

Being good, however, makes people happy. And that automatically adds to one’s own happiness because one gets to be surrounded by happy people.

So, in summary, evil comes from being an already weak personality, it is a high-maintenance lifestyle, is incredibly boring, and will stress out a person into an early grave. Being good is satisfying because you get to end the evil cycle by simply not partaking (which also makes it an easy lifestyle). Also, you get to be surrounded by a lot of people who genuinely like you. As a bonus, human beings have a natural emotional response within ourselves whenever we do something good for someone, even if we don’t tell anyone. This condition is often referred to as “the warm fuzzies.”

Boy, I wish I knew this sooner. I’ve been ripped off!!