Qad, that’s a good question.
I will tell you what the Bible says and you can take it or leave it, k? It says that all humans are inherently bad (because of sin), WITH THE CAPACITY TO DO GOOD AT TIMES. It’s not that we can’t do good, it’s just that we can’t stop from being bad.
Christians are not “good” because of anything they have done. Jesus had to be “good” for us first, and we take on what he has done. Christians still do both good and bad things, “saved” or not, same as non-Christians.
Guin, I think you’ve got the wrong chapter in Matthew. For those interested, here’s the entire “Sheep and Goats” thing, found in Matthew 25:31ff:
By my reading, Jesus is basically saying, “If you don’t do good works, you’re going to hell”. Quote what you will from the rest of the New Testament, but I’d expect that the words of Jesus carry a certain weight that the others don’t. FTR, I am not a Christian, but I was raised as one, so I am at least somewhat familiar with all this stuff.
D’oh! You’re right! I was quoting Chapter 25 of Matthew!
:smack:
Qadgop, cart and horse and all of that. First, Christ said what was good. Being good was being like Christ (Michael Jordan references omitted). Relevant quotes have been given here.
So, the question is: how can one be a bad Christian? Seems contradictory: to be bad, you would have to go against Christ. But in doing so you would fail to be a Christian. So there can be no bad Christians. Christians can do bad things; in doing so, they are not in their capacity as a Christian (if they were, they wouldn’t be doing them!).
Not quite the same thing as Nixon. The Watergate thing is God killing whole towns of people. It can’t be wrong, God did it, etc.
One can be a bad christian if they believe christ was bad. I think the Fred Phelpses of this world believe they are being christian, they believe in a vengeful and flat out evil christ. Ann Coulter has said non christians should be forcibly converted. Would most good christians say they are being unchristian?
Just to clarify, I think most christians are good, and that trying to be more like christ is not a bad idea even for non-christians, but some seem to believe that christ wasn’t a nice guy.
Sure, but thinking Christ was bad isn’t being very Christian.
Oh, and
“Nice”? But christ is the standard of goodness (niceness)! See my confusion here?
From what I’ve read of the bible christ was a good guy, but some people who claim to be christians seem to be reading a different bible.
You say that it is logically impossible to be a “bad” christian, I ask do you consider Fred Phelps, Ann Coulter, Jerry Falwell, Jack Chick etc. to be christians?
If so how can you consider them “good”?
If not, who decides which self-proclaimed chistians are and aren’t “real” christians?
Christ! 
No, really, this is the question, an unfortunately serious version of the “true scotsman” argument. And this is my confusion.
Consider: what is a Christian? Simply: a follower of Christ. What does that mean? We must ask Christ. Is Fred Phelps following Christ? He thinks so from the questions he has asked Him.
Which is the true scotsman?
Oh, WV, and in this thread, Paralells between Mormons and Muslims, you weren’t lambasting an entire faith group (the Muslims) while at the same time admitting that you were doing so lacking knowledge about them? There’s a word for folks who do that. Same word applies to those who decide that those who consider themselves Christians (the LDS) aren’t “really Christians.”
BTW, you go by what you think the Bible says, and the LDS go by what we think the Bible and our other scriptures say.
But that brings up a major problem. If christ is good, and striving to be more like him makes you good those who serve evil can not be christians. Objective, real world morality has to enter the picture: causing harm to others is wrong. The Jesus I read about in the bible would not practice or even condone the tactics Phelps and others carry out in his name.
I submit that it is clear that there are “bad” christians; being christians doesn’t make them good, being “bad” doesn’t make them non-christians- christ may reject them but they profess him. [sub]or something.[/sub]
No real Christian would do such a thing, you say?
No, you don’t… I am sorry to imply you did. But you say “bad” Christians… but “bad” is defined by Christ/God. So how can a person be a follower of Christ and still be bad? It seems downright paradoxical, IMNSHO, and the only way out of it is the true scotsman argument; that is, they aren’t really following Christ.
Perhaps I should bow out here… 
Monty I am not going to get into it with you.
Yes, I go by what the Bible says. You, on the other hand, seem to think that God not only needs our help getting us saved, but He needs help with His book as well … as in, He couldn’t even get His own book right on the first try.
We are coming from opposite ends of the spectrum.
To the best of my knowledge, this is a gross mischaracterization of the Mormon faith. Mormons don’t believe that God “couldn’t get His own book right on the first try.” Rather, they believe that God chose not to reveal it all at once. Can you appreciate the difference?
Not when the books contradict, no.
WV_Woman-couldn’t the Jews say the same things about Christianity?
:rolleyes:
If Jews wanna say that, let them. shrug
How about cake?
Yes, it’s an analogy.
And couldn’t the Catholics say that about the Protestants? Protestants use the Jewish canon for their Old Testament, while Catholics use the Septuagint, which includes the Apocrypha. So which one of you has “the Bible,” WV_Woman – you, or the Catholics?