Goodbye Ft. Lauderdale; Hello Denver!

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
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TL;DR: I’m a Floridian, born and bred. But my business isn’t making enough money to sustain my cost of living, so my wife and I have decided to shut it down, sell the house and relocate. Freed from the obligations of being in our hometown, we’ve picked Denver, Colorado as our new home. I’m super excited, as it seems to have everything we could want. Advice, warnings, admonitions, experiences, or other thoughts are welcome.

My wife and I are attorneys, and we opened our own law practice in Fort Lauderdale, Florida about a year and a half ago, doing real estate transactions and later (in an effort to generate more business) estate planning. We poured our savings into the venture, figuring that the independence that comes with being business owners was worth the risk. We networked like crazy, and I’m pleased to say that we’ve made some really good contacts and have had many clients sing our praises, many coming back to us for repeat business. In the end, the business has been steadily making money.

But…between the house on the water, sending our precocious 3 year old to a private Montessori-type school, shopping at Whole Foods, etc. etc., we have been living in the red for quite some time. We’ve had a few months where the net profit was enough to pay all of the bills, but far too often we’ve had to dip back into savings. We avoided discussing the inevitable, until the inevitable was unavoidable: we can’t afford to live like this.

So, we’ve done the responsible thing: We have the house up for sale (the good news is that, based on the way the market looks, we will actually recoup the savings we’ve managed to squander. We bought at the bottom of the market, and stand to net about $200,000 from the sale).

With the house gone (soon, I hope!), and the business coming to an end at the end of December, we looked at our future like a blank slate. Given no ties to anywhere, where would we want to end up? I was born, reared, educated, and lived in Florida my whole life; so has my wife. In fact, we are both multi-generational natives. But, having been here, I can attest to the fact that most of the state has the deep south mentality and culture I abhor. South Florida offers a reprieve, but it is nearly always hot and humid (“winter” is that one weekend where you break out the one sweater you own) and festering with bugs. It is nice to be near the water, but it can be prohibitively expensive, especially if you want a boat. And, truth be told, we don’t do the water activities (like scuba diving, skiing, or just hanging out at the beach) that makes Florida attractive to outsiders.

I don’t want to live in the South. We considered Washington (the State) [she loved it having visited in the past; my friend who also visited raved about it], the D.C. area [it’s my favorite city], and Northern California [where we both have cousins], but in the end, we picked Denver, Colorado.

  1. It has seasons! I love the idea of an actual, honest to goodness winter. My absolute favorite weather is a sunny day in the 50s, and Denver has about 300 days of sun a year, even with winter cold. And the weather is low humidity; none of that gross wet sludge that piles up in northeastern cities or summer days when the air is so thick you sweat buckets even when the temperatures are in the 80s.

  2. It’s a big city that feels quaint. Denver is a big enough city to host 4 professional sports teams and attract different cultures (and their tasty ethnic foods), but it isn’t so huge that it has overflowing slums, rampant pollution, or the other nastiness that often accompanies a modern metropolis. From my research, there are areas to avoid, but nothing really approaching a ghetto like you might find in NYC and L.A.

  3. The schools are good. If I stayed here in Ft. Lauderdale, I’d end up sending my son to a private school (and the best ones are more expensive than a private university!). Colorado has a good public education system, so I wouldn’t be depriving him of good opportunities by putting him into the public school system.

  4. It’s booming. Granted, this will effect my cost of living (although we’ve been looking at renting for about a year, and the cost will basically cut our home expense in half). Real Estate prices are already on the rise. But, as somebody looking to settle in with a career (and with my experience doing real estate transactions), there are definite opportunities to be had.

  5. Pot! Ok, this one will probably have a lot of you rolling your eyes. But, as an aficionado, I look forward to the progressive attitude towards marijuana. I consider good marijuana like fine wine, in that there are different strains with different tastes and properties. When you rely on the black market, you are happy to get what is available (assuming it is high quality), but such a limited selection precludes one from learning to appreciate the subtle distinctions between a merlot and a cabernet (to further the wine analogy). It’ll be nice to really get to enjoy my predilection at its finest.

Thoughts?

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I hear it’s cold there.

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Per the Denver Post, today’s high is 48 degrees Fahrenheit and sunny. Considering we are just a few weeks from Christmas, that sounds pretty good to me. In the summer, it gets warm enough to hang out by the pool.

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Re: pot. I was astonished how high the quality is in the retail stores. And not terribly expensive either.

Oh, and don’t forget hash – equally legal and kicks most pot’s ass potency-wise.

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I’m looking at a similar move - from Minnesota.

Average highs in January range in the mid to upper 40’s.

And yeah, the pot is really good.

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I’ve actually had people warn me about the cold. One person told me that it was one of the coldest places in the country! Considering there are states like Minnesota and North Dakota, that is laughable!

I mean, I realize that I will need more winter clothes. I pulled out my scarf, wool cap and Pea coat from the attic the other day (the only reason I own them is because I went to NYC about 4 Decembers ago), but I will need a lot more. I’ve been told that good boots are important, so we are going to be checking out some stores this weekend. I also want a fedora (in truth, I’ve wanted a fedora for a long time, but my wife thinks I’m goofy for saying so. With winter comes an excuse! I like the look of being in a suit while wearing a nice overcoat and hat. It strikes me as a very classy look).

I’m actually going to be visiting in about a week to check out the apartments we’ve been reviewing (our favorite is in Glendale; a friend who lives there loves it)…does anybody know if winter clothes are more or less expensive in a winter climate than down here, where nobody actually needs it unless they’re traveling? I would think the prices are better out there, but maybe it doesn’t matter.

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Remember the old Coors beer ads that showed the babes in bikinis on skis? I never understood that until I moved to Denver. We will have a bitterly cold, snowy day with the high in the teens and then two days later it will be in the 60s and sunny. It is, technically, possible to ski while wearing a bikini…even if not advisable for most of us over the age of 30.

I love it here and would never go back to the Chicago area from whence I came with the endless long winters, steamy humid summers, and Februarys where you might not see the sun once during the month.

There are a few things weatherwise to be alert to:

1 - Due to the altitude, you can get a bad sunburn easily, even on a cloudy day.
2 - It’s incredibly dry for someone like yourself coming from a humid climate. Be religious about lip balm and body lotion until your body adapts. I’d also suggest a humidifier for your home.
3 - Just like your body, your wood furniture dries out. A humidifier helps here as well.
4 - You can experience 4 climates in one day. Always have a jacket with you, even on a hot day. Umbrellas are needed maybe three times a year, but when you need one, you really need one, because we get gully washers. They don’t last long, but they come down hard.
5 - Hail is a real problem. It’s a rare summer that some area of town doesn’t get hammered with sizeable hail that damages cars and roofs.
6 - Tornados happen.

Some of the foregoing may sound grim, but with slight adjustments, you’ll love it in Denver, I promise.

I guarantee, though, that you’ll miss the ocean. I was born and raised along Lake Michigan and seeing pictures of beaches and waves is the one thing that makes me homesick.

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Thanks for the advice! My wife has already talked about needing a humidifier.

I hadn’t thought of tornados or hail. I guess I am giving up hurricanes and rising sea levels for another one of nature’s glorious dangers. I’ve also been told that shoveling your car out of snow sucks. By the time we buy a house, I hope to have a snowblower. In the meantime, the apartment offers a garage for one of our cars, so there’s that going for us. I also hear that there is decent public transportation from Glendale into the city (yet another thing that beats Ft. Lauderdale, where the only people on the buses are the dregs of the city).

You’re probably right about missing the beach and the ocean, but I truly never go. When we got back from our NYC trip, though, I noticed all of the palm trees in South Florida for the first time ever. I guess getting away does make you appreciate what you have. The good news is that my mother and my in-laws are still in Florida, so I do still expect to visit about once a year. And my son already has his in state tuition prepaid. I’m not sure if we lose the ability to send him to a Florida university once he becomes an out of state resident, but there’s always the chance he decides to follow his old man’s legacy and go to the University of Florida, which is another reason to visit (in about 15 years!).

Oh, and I just thought of another reason I am excited to move to Colorado: Finished basements! Man cave, here I come!

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Things to know:

  1. It does not have 4 seasons, it has 2: winter and summer. Winters are mild (the fact that people are warning you about the cold is hilarious) ; it’s not unusual to have temps in the 50s and 60s. Like stillownedbysetters said, there are cold snaps, but they generally don’t last long. The mild temps and sun mean that when it snows, there isn’t a lot of snow clean-up that goes on. The general attitude is, “Eh, it’ll melt in a day or two, so why plow?”

  2. Summers are HOT. Yes, it’s a dry heat, but temps in the 90s are temps in the 90s. Combined with the proximity to the sun (yes, the altitude has a much greater impact than many people anticipate) and the dry air, it feels like an oven for half the year.

  3. Since most of the population lives along the front range, traffic is a nightmare on I-25. It doesn’t matter what time of day it is.

  4. The housing market is ridiculous. Houses are expensive and they move quickly.

  5. The mountains are pretty, but they’re just something to look at on the horizon. Denver is not in the mountains, it’s on the plains and the plains are flat and brown. Everything that’s green has been planted by landscapers and must be watered to survive. Hence, everything looks very suburban/office park-y.

  6. People are friendly. It’s very relaxed and laid back and people are genuinely helpful.

  7. The Mexican food is fantastic, and if you like beer you’ll be in the right place.

  8. Heed stillownedbysetters advice about the lotion and lip balm. And invest in many cans of Static Guard.

Edit because I just saw your response: You will not need a snowblower. Trust me. The snow is generally light and powdery and dry and you can sometimes just sweep it. The heavy wet snows come in the spring (when most of Denver’s snowfall happens, actually) and there are only 1-2 big ones.

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It may surprise people, but it is in the 90’s in Minnesota too during the summer. Only, we have a lot of water and a lot of wetlands* and when it’s in the 90’s the humidity is high enough that you almost have to swim through the air.

So 90’s and dry isn’t quite as frightening.

  • "The baseline data on wetland quantity reveal that Minnesota currently has 10.6 million acres of wetlands. " - State of MN
    “About 200 lakes and wetlands an acre or more in size are part of a citywide stormwater drainage system of over 1,270 natural and constructed waterbodies.” - City of Eagan MN (where I live - City of 35 sq mi.)
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Same goes for here in Florida. Humidity makes you sweat profusely well before it gets into the 90s. By the time July and August roll around, you are likely to burn your hands on the steering wheel of your car or your seatbelt buckle, and people basically run from one air conditioned place to another.

I’m actually glad that it gets hot during the summer in Denver. I don’t want it to be too cold and wintery all of the time. The apartment complex I’m looking at boasts a nice pool, and my son enjoys swimming with me. I don’t want to give that up completely.

[QUOTE=Moonmoon]
Since most of the population lives along the front range, traffic is a nightmare on I-25. It doesn’t matter what time of day it is.
[/QUOTE]

Traffic. We have plenty of that down here. I-95 can easily turn into a parking lot.

I love Mexican food! Beer, not so much (although I do understand that Denver has lots of craft brews to try). As noted in the OP, I’m more keen on the plant based intoxicants. :smiley:

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I’ve noticed that Denver is very very expensive. Rent and house prices. The suburbs are not nearly as bad, but boy howdy are rents much higher than they are here!

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Chimera, I also came from the Midwest and besides the housing costs - which were huge compared to home - I was shocked by the cost of groceries here, particularly produce.

And speaking of money…it’s a little thing, but sometimes the little things add up. The tax rates differ between Denver and the 'burbs. If I want to buy a big ticket item, I will drive into Denver to buy it, simply because the tax rate in Denver proper is lower than the tax rate in my 'burb. It wouldn’t be worth it for some things, but if you’re buying a car, a piece of jewelry, furniture, or a big new giant tv, do it in Denver.

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Tornados in Denver itself are very rare. You have to get a bit further out on the plains, where they do happen with some frequency.

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*"Denver’s air is deteriorating, with increased ozone and soot, pushing the city from 26th to 13th among most-polluted cities in the nation, the American Lung Association said Wednesday in releasing a survey.

The troubling trend in Denver and Fort Collins, which rose to 16th among most-polluted U.S. cities, exemplified a slide in air quality across Western states, according to ALA officials, who based their analysis on federal and state government air data.

Rising temperatures and drought in the West are creating ideal conditions for episodes of high pollution from tiny particulates, the officials said.*

"DENVER’S SNOWIEST DECEMBERS:

57.4 INCHES 1913 ***SNOWIEST MONTH IN DENVER HISTORY

30.8 1973

29.4 2006

27.1 1982

21.5 1987

20.9 2007

19.6 1918

18.4 1924

17.8 1960

17.5 1891

http://www.weather.gov/bou/dec2015_denver_statpreview

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I know for our daughter, the fact that we moved to Maryland didn’t affect her prepaid tuition, although she did graduate from high school in FL and she had an apartment when my husband and I moved north. The plan may have changed since then - you’ve got time to check. :wink:

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A few notes:

It is not cold, nor is it hot. It gets cold and it gets hot, but averaged out over a season, it is incredibly mild. 50° in Denver is a lot warmer than 50° in Wisconsin. The sun and altitude make a ton of difference. Many, many people don’t even wear warm clothes in the winter unless they are going to be outside for a long time. 20° is no big deal if you’re just walking 50 feet from your car to your workplace. You can get downright hot if you’re skiing, even if it’s in the low 20’s.

Things are relative - it will feel very cold to you coming from Florida. It is expensive here, but not if you’re coming from New York or California. A million $ will get you a two bedroom loft in NYC or San Francisco. Here it will get you a 5.000 Sq. foot home in one of the best neighborhoods. Forget about finding a livable place for $200K, though. They don’t exist anymore.

Tornadoes don’t hit Denver. The very rare ones that do are small and weak. 100 miles East is a different story, though. Hail is a real threat, although it seems to happen a lot less often than it did 15 or 20 years ago. The worst weather hazard is blizzards. Do not dismiss blizzards. Stay home. They can kill you and even if you make it through one, it will suck.

Traffic happens, but it really isn’t that bad. Any top 20 city has it just as bad and many are worse (I’m looking you, DC).

There really aren’t any “bad” parts of town. Some are poor, but there isn’t any place that you’d be afraid to go.

It really is a damn nice place to live. I think those of us who live here are a bit spoiled.

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Moriarty, my husband and I envy you! We are also life-long Floridians (well mostly, I don’t let him forget he was born a damn Yankee, in Jersey, no less)! We both lived in Fort Lauderdale as well and are seriously talking about moving to Colorado in a few years. Of all the places we’ve traveled, it’s one of the most beautiful. We’re going to Steamboat Springs in February and really looking forward to being there again.

Also, pot. :wink:

Wishing you the best in your endeavor!

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It will not matter where you live if you continue to live beyond your means. I hope your prospects are better in Denver.

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The advice about taxes is a good one. I noticed that different municipalities are able to impose their own additional sales tax. At first, I thought sales tax would be lower than in South Florida (where it is 6.5%), but now that I see that it can trend higher. I’m also not used to a state income tax…damn fees might drive me to change my voter affiliation (I kid, I kid). As I see it, though, the trade off is in better public transportation, better schools, museums and parks, and (possibly, depending on how the 2016 election goes, and depending on the feasibility of implementation) a single payer healthcare system.

[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane]
…Forget about finding a livable place for $200K, though…
[/QUOTE]
I didn’t expect to. The proceeds from our sale should cover the cost of our move and provide a cushion while I settle in, get a job, and take the Colorado bar exam. I’m aggressively looking for work now. The goal is to use some of the funds to make a down payment on a house in about a year, as opposed to buying for cash. Ultimately, though, we intend to keep as much as we reasonably can in the bank account.