Goodbye Sweetness

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

Anytime the world loses a good human being at a young age it’s a tragedy. I weep for all of them, Phil, but it’s also a selfish feeling that I want them around, because it is them who make this world a better place.

The analogy about “common” good people does not go unknown to me. But that’s a personal thing. I can’t say, “My mom died,” and have people KNOW what I think she stood for, her triumphs, her virtues, and several reasons why I think she made the world a better place.

People would be sorry for my loss, and some people went so far as to say, “You turned out great, so she must have been great,” but when you don’t know th person, it’s hard to say with any certainty, aside from simply sympathy, why it would have been nice for the deceased to stick around a little longer.

With someone who we all know, it’s a bit easier to have a community grieving, if you will.

So, yes, all good people being taken from us saddens me. But when others can relat to those feelings, it helps others deal with the loss.

Why does one have to be a “loved one” to touch our lives?

Yer pal,
Satan

42

Oh, one other thing, Phil.

I think you’re one of the posters here I like best. For all I know about you, you could be a bastard IRL, but I think that you are a good person, trying to make the world a better place every day, even if it means ruffling a few feathers.

If all of a sudden, someone came here and said you died, and it wwas revealed you were in your 40s or younger, I would feel just as bad that you didn’t stick around a little longer to make more of a difference.

Yer pal,
Satan

43

A single death is a tragedy… a million deaths is a statistic. -Stalin I think.

280 People died in an airplane crash, and I’ve heard more on Payton then all of them combined. Until, of course that if came out that 2 of the people might have been related to a real live football player.

All deaths are tragic to those involved… perhaps a celebrity death has more people involved, but how many of us in our 80 years will live as rich of a life as he lived in 40? He died as will all of us, but lived as few of us will.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

44

Well, Phil, I think you’re pathetic. The comments that state “he didn’t deserve to die” while corrected by Satan in a serious backpedal in what I assume is an attempt to get this thread back where it belongs, is simply a figure of speach not intended to be taken literally. Anyone with common sense knows that. And your insistence to pull this thread down understates the hypocrisy that you continue to show. You have repeatedly shown a malice and comtempt for anyone with a glimmer of public affection or celebrity. Considering your trying to say that these people are no better than the average man, you don’t mind belittling them at every opportunity, and treating them as if you are jealous of them. You may not be jealous, and just are a disturbed induvidual with no perspective on life and emotions.

Athletes and celebrities in general give up alot, and get paid alot, in order to entertain and generally make their fans lives a bit happier. If no enetrtainer has done this for you I imagine you have a truly bleak life. Their loss is a communal loss, more so than the person who lives a quiet life with no impact on anyone, but their immediate family. No loss at face value is any worse than another, but death and loss is not a black and white issue, if you don’t approve, fine, but realize it is a reality.

Forgive my nitpicking: Its spelled Payton, not Peyton, and the transplant would not have saved him, the diagnosis was far too late for any action to benefit him. The awareness of organ donation is still apparent, and significant though.

45

When Walter Payton played against the Cowboys, I hated him. When he played against anybody else, I loved him.

I’m sorry to see him die, but I will not grieve for him like I grieved for my father and I know Walter would have it no other way.

pldennison, think of it this way: If people cry over the death of a celebrity they didn’t personally know, it’s because that person gave some pleasure to them. They entertained or informed or educated us. Not in the same way that our loved ones do, of course, but they did change our lives somewhat. We therefore admired them, liked them, even wanted to be like them. Now death had taken that person away forever and we will never again have that special thrill, that wonder, from seeing someone do something we can only dream of doing. All we have is our memories, and those, dammit, may fade away into nothing.

If we don’t grieve over the deaths of an air disaster, it’s simply because we had never heard of them before that moment. How do you grieve over the deaths of total strangers? It’s a tragedy, yes, but without any familiarity, there will be no grief.

Hope this clears things up.

Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to relive it. Georges Santayana

46

An unsolicited memory:

I remember being in 4th or 5th grade when Walter Payton first started to play. I didn’t follow football (I’ve always been a baseball sorta gal) but I remember this guy I had a crush on and his friend on the school bus trading football cards and lamenting that they’d never get that elusive Walter Payton rookie card. Naturally, I went and bought a pack and got it my first try. The next day on the bus I non-chalantly held it over the seat saying “Oh, gee. Look what I have!” Much shouting and excitement followed, even more so when I announced that I was GIVING it to him. He may even have gone so far as to proclaim his love for me, but since he pretty much never spoke to me again, I just consider him the first in a line of guys I tried to bribe into liking me and failed. Not only that, I of course no longer have a Walter Payton rookie card. :frowning:

Farewell, sweetness.

47

A highly overused one, IMNSHO.

If common sense is so common, how come more people don’t have it, huh? Huh? Answer that!

What hypocrisy, exactly? I stated an opinion, explained the opinion, and am sticking with it. It’s not like I say one thing and mean another. Do you even know what “hypocrisy” means?

I have done no such thing. I merely detest public grieving for famous people.

Which they are not, and in fact death is the great equalizer. I can now play golf better than Payne Stewart and outrun Walter Payton.

Excuse me, but I did not belittle anyone. I said Walter Payton’s death was no more or less important than anyone’s one your local obituary page.

Nobody elected you SDMB Armchair Psychologist, IIRC. I think “People live, people die” is a rather realistic perspective, frankly.

Yes, it’s so tough being famous. Boo-fucking-hoo. As John Lydon once said, “If you don’t want to be famous, simply stop. Easiest thing in the world.”

Did I say there aren’t entertainers whose work I enjoy? No, I didn’t. Will I miss their work when they’re gone? Perhaps. I mean, it sucks I can’t buy new John Lennon albums or see new James Mason movies. Will I pretend like my dad died when they go? Nope.

So then you DO think the deaths of non-famous people don’t matter. Thanks for making it explicit.

Unless you aren’t famous.

So I can’t offer an opinion contrary to the prevailing one? Sorry, Slappy, I don’t take orders from you.

“I love God! He’s so deliciously evil!” - Stewie Griffin, Family Guy

[Note: This message has been edited by TubaDiva]

48

Upon further reflection, Omniscient, you’re the one at fault.

I have, in every post, offered a well-explained and well-defended opinion as to why I don’t think the deaths of celebrities are any more devastating than those of any other person, and why they shouldn’t necessarily be promoted as such; and you use it as an opportunity to launch into a vicious personal attack full of personal insults and pop psychology. Good way to not address the issue.

“I love God! He’s so deliciously evil!” - Stewie Griffin, Family Guy

[insults removed by TubaDiva; this ain’t the time or the place.]
[Note: This message has been edited by TubaDiva]

49

Let’s all chill here, folks, or I’m closing this thread. Any posts containing personal abuse, obscenities, etc., will be deleted.

50

Sorry, Ed; you can delete mine if need be. I will repost them in the BBQ Pit.

“I love God! He’s so deliciously evil!” - Stewie Griffin, Family Guy

51

Let’s see, Phil asks a perfectly valid question, (Why does anyone deserve – or not deserve to die and when has that had anything to do with it?) make a fairly inspirational statement (Let’s all appreciate what life we have…) and he’s attacked as insensative, hypocritical and on and on.

Hmmm… Phil did NOT:

  1. Attack Walter Payton
  2. Say he deserved to die
  3. Make any comment about the life, worth or character of Walter Payton

Yet some of you viciously attack him for daring to question our culture’s celebrity worship. Perhaps Phil’s timing was a little insensitive. But any reg around here knows he’s on the iconoclastic side. Why don’t you read what he’s actually written before you make wild accusations.

For the record, I was a fan of Walter Payton’s. He was a HELL of a football player. According to the media, he was a good man in his personal life as well, which I have no reason to doubt. His death was sad.

But most deaths are sad. And what disturbs me (and probably Phil as well, although I would never presume to speak for him) is that the celebrity building process urges us to form more of an emotional attachment to people we know only through the media than we do to people who are actually in our lives. It’s implicit that somehow famous people are worth more than the rest of us. This is wrong. There are people just as great as Walter Payton on every block of every town in the world. Let us not become so absorbed in the praising of famous men that we cannot recognize the humanity of our neighbor.

I respect and share your grief for Walter Payton. I also understand and share Phil’s belief that death has nothing to do with whether you deserve it or not. When I consider people who have died young, famous and otherwise, I can only come to the same conclusion that Phil did – appreciate the life you have, don’t take it for granted, live it to the fullest.

Peace.

52

That may be true but, as this statement proves, you can’t outclass them.

I never said you were wrong, but jumping into a thread where people are fondly remembering someone who just passed away and saying “get over it” is insensitive to say the least. Your subsequent posts only made it worse. Did I know Payton? No. Do I miss him as much as someone that I personally knew? No.

But emotional hyperbole doesn’t give you carte blanche to act like an asshole.

53

A few additions/corrections on both Payton and McMahon:

It was not that his disease was “too advanced” when discovered to get a transplant, it was that he was one of the unlucky 1 in 10 (or so) who get this rare disease who also have, as an additional complication, bile duct cancer. The cancer was found a month or so after the initial discovery of the disease, and once that was found, it was pretty much determined that he could not get a transplant.

McMahon, if memory serves, scratched himself in the eye with a fork as a child. That is why he has to wear the sunglasses.

And as far as Phil, jeez, people, get a grip. Flaming Phil for daring to disagree with you or point something out that you’d rather not see is just plain ridiculous.

54

David B, now that you mention it, your post refreshed my memory, and I seem to remember hearing about McMahon scratching himself in the eye with a fork, and it not being a disease.

55

Oh, Christ on a crutch, I was paraphrasing some standup comedian, you humorless twit. He has a song called “Because They’re Dead,” with verse like, “Jim Hendrix can’t play like me, I play better than him, because he’s dead.” Yeesh.

I never said nor implied “get over it.” I asked for a little perspective and took issue over who does and doesn’t “deserve to die.” Argue with what I said, not what you think or hope I said. And don’t deliberately mischaracterize what I said, either.

“I love God! He’s so deliciously evil!” - Stewie Griffin, Family Guy

56

You’re right- you never said “get over it” nor did you imply it. That was the impression that I erroneously came away with after first reading your posts.

However, if you want to talk about deliberate mischaracterization:

>>“Walter Payton was the bestest greatest person to ever, ever play football or do anything else, and even though he had achieved more fame, talent and wealth than any 10 SDMBers combined, and probably had a pretty fulfilling life, he should have been granted permanent immunity from all illnesses and been permitted by the Universe to live forever and ever and ever.”

I know its sarcastic and exaggerated. But its still a mischaracterization.

I took offense at the tone and timing of your statement- I found it pretty callous. You could’ve phrased it a lot better. The whole argument seems to be based on your reply to a post by Satan that he later amended.

57

I knew Jim in high school (Roy High, Roy, Utah) and I remember that he had to wear sunglasses outdoors even back then.

>^,^<
KITTEN
Seven days of sex makes a whole week.

58

I ain’t takin’ back nothin’ I said.

It would, indeed, be strange to have someone grieve over a celebrity like they would a parent or a spouse. But I don’t see any of that here. Someone we admire is gone forever and to not feel something when that happens would be equally strange. At the very least, you’d feel a sense of loss, and a lot of us cry when we feel loss. The rest of us pretend we feel nothing at all.

Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to relive it. Georges Santayana