Is this just bluster / hyperbole or intended as a literal claim?
As soon as you are able to quote the second amendment correctly, and realize the interpretations off it happened in 2008,2010, and 2016 instead of in antiquity then perhaps you will at least be speaking from a semi educated perspective.
One more thing, the national guard is now part of the federal selected reserve, no longer a militia. States recognize that and the ones who’s constitutions call for a militia have other organizations named as their official militia, for instance I believe Ohio’s is called the OMR.
Assuming you could get the second amendment repealed, or even re-interpreted in SCOTUS , now you just have a lack of the Constitution addressing private gun ownership.
Many state Constitutions are much more explicit in giving gun rights to citizens.
I believe right around 30 of them in fact.
So you’d need another amendment overriding the states.
And now you are into the “long train of abuses and userpations”
The Constitution actually calls it a right even a duty to overthrow a government which is making it a point to systematically violate your rights.
I think you mean the Declaration of Independence.
The U.S. Constitution says no such thing.
Yes thank you
I didn’t mean the thread to be a 2nd Amendment debate (we have had dozens of those threads) but rather, was asking for insight into the minds of gun owners. What % of gun owners are indeed diehard enough that they would open fire on government agents trying to take their guns away? 30%?
(Yes, again, confiscation almost certainly wouldn’t happen in that method, but if it did, how would they react?)
It is
State Constitutions which re-iterate that right from the DOI, often placing less constraints on it
If I drop you in the middle of the jungle, by yourself and with only your ‘natural rights’, what does that get you? ‘Natrual rights’, like all rights, are a human construct. Outside of human society, they don’t exist.
I DO understand what they are. I am simply pointing out reality. In the context of this discussion, they are meaningless, but the Constitutional rights are not. If you live in the CCP and assert your ‘natural rights’, know what that gets you? A quick trip to a detention center and probably carved up for parts. You are worth whatever the CCP can get for your organs. Which is neither here nor there either, and as meaningless as trying to assert ‘natural rights’ in this discussion. In the context of the OP, it’s nor Constitutional rights that are under discussion, and someone trying to remove them by fiat. In that same context, whatever you want to fantasize about ‘natural rights’ wrt the law or the Constitution, any of the Amendments can be modified or removed if enough people agree. That is the way our system is supposed to work.
Hypothetically and barring the coup status and state Constitutions and all that other stuff.
Probably not a huge amount, enough to be in the news everyday … possibly enough to have
a Colorado weed type scenario where the states fight the feds on enforcement.
I think most citizens are actually pretty placid. Most people just have too much to lose. I think you’d have a lot more of a hiding them scenario.
I’m gonna put it at maybe 1 percent of lawful owners fighting violently.
Many probably forming groups that turn it into a years long standoff that is effectively just quarantine
Probably depends significantly on the specifics of the scenario. Is this Kamala declaring a national emergency and asking French peacekeepers to come in and confiscate everyone’s guns via door-to-door searches? That probably gets a lot of people literally up-in-arms. OTOH, if the country decides to repeal the 2nd Amendment some years in the future, and above-board votes in 38+ states ratify the repeal-the-2nd-Amendment, well, that’s a country that’s a LOT different from the one we live in today, and its populace would apparently be much more supportive of gun control, so relatively few, if any, people are going to violently resist.
Right now, today, in the real USA, something like the first scenario I offered, I put the # at a single-digit or low-double-digit % of gun owners actually willing to discharge a firearm with deadly intent at the gun grabbers.
It’s probably worth mentioning that that’s still a shitload of people shooting at the gun grabbers. Taking the oft-cited (but probably not entirely accurate) figure of 80 million gun owners, 1% would still be 800,000 trigger-pullers.
Well, It’s not just what some people believe.
Ohio’s general assembly codified this into law;
The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio…
It might be worth researching on what basis they called it a fundamental individual right that predates the US Constitution…
David Koresh wasn’t really a gun nut, so much as a religious nut.
But Ruby Ridge is a better example. The deaths of two innocents and one US Marshal.
Then there are those of us with known weapons and weapons that had previously fallen through the cracks [I know someone who has a couple Ruger service 6s and a 1911 that somehow found its way out of military possession into private ownership that are not registered in any way] where they would happily turn over the registered weapons and be happy they have a few that they still have that nobody knew about. <shrug> As I have pointed out previously, I can go downstairs in my barn right now and fabricate a pretty reliable ‘zip gun’ as I spent a number of years as a machinist and am pretty good at metal fabrication.
Would I die if they came to confiscate my weapons? Probably not, depending on how they went about it. Broad daylight, knock on the door, peaceful turn over. Dead of night, SWAT raid/home invasion - bodies on the floor, blood on the walls. Self defense - how do I know they are here ‘legally’? Could be a home invasion. Proper governmental action to legally confiscate something is to show up with a warrant in hand.
It wouldn’t take long to get to the bottom of that one.
Has the government actually ever gone door to door confiscating anything that’s been banned?
Seems the MO is to just let them go away by obsolescence, how many pre 1986 machine guns are around?
Apparently few enough as to not even be on the gun control radar or rarely be mentioned.
? I honestly don’t know, unless it’s just the simple fact that everyone had them even before the constitutions authorship and you know, used them to enforce the DOI.
They raided quite a few places during Prohibition and smashed a lot of barrels and bottles.
There are no fundamental universal human rights. That’s a very useful fiction we in the west agree to propagate.
So, drugs basically. Even then, only sales points not just anybody who had a little.
Raiding places selling or manufacturing illegal guns or drugs/alcohol is one thing, going around looking for them Is quite another.
Long guns aren’t even registered. Nm the difficulties tracking down even registered guns, people move, die, lose them in one way or another…it’s an impossible task.
I’d expect a passive approach, at most a stiff sentence for possession and just let them roll in through the course of normal police work.
Of course, that would again require changing state Constitutions because if federal law overrides a state Constitution then state agencies are forbidden by their Constitution to participate in enforcing it …only feds could do it
All gun sales fill out a federal form. But you are right, difficulties. They are perfectly capable of getting “no knock” warrants for everyone the govt thinks owns a gun, however.