Although generally a strong proponent of the right to die with dignity, but this case does leave me a bit uncomfortable. Gauging the degree of informed consent of a 4 year old is difficult
Its clear that she hates the resuscitation procedures that are used to revive her and would much rather be in the heaven she’s been told about. But its not clear that she understands that dying of pneumonia might be even more painful than undergoing the procedure. I would also feel better if rather than asking her “would you want to stay home even if it meant you went to heaven”, they worded it in terms of things that she enjoys now that wouldn’t be able to do if she died. “Would you want to stay home even if it meant you would never eat ice cream again”, or “Would you want to stay home even if it meant your mom would never read you a story again.” etc.
That said, I’m only basing this on a very short article, and the parents and doctors involved obviously have more experience with her desires and degree of understanding, and for all I know may have covered my concerns. I also believe that they all want what is best for her, and so I don’t condemn them for their decision even if I might make the same decision if I were in their place.
Here’s a longer article about Julianna, with more description of what she went through the last time she was in the hospital.
I’d be willing to let my child suffer like that if it was temporary and there was hope they’d get better. But she’s not and won’t. And the hospital doesn’t even think she’d survive the treatment again - her nerves have continued to degenerate since she was last in the ICU.
And Smapti, you’ve shown yourself on other topics to be a bit of a psychopath who is unable to feel empathy for others. So your opinion on the matter is pretty much useless.
Exactly. It’s just that some of us are dying a little sooner than others, and prefer NOT to fight a losing battle. There’s a difference between taking care of a treatable illness and saying, “no more!” to something that’s most likely not going to do any good, but make her more miserable, just for a few more months. Some people want to die peacefully, at home, in their sleep, rather than in a hospital, hooked up to tubes. And that’s not murder.
It sounds like the treatment really isn’t working – and that they’re saying it’s a bit IF. So that’s the reason why I’d support this. If we were talking something like chemo, I’d agree. But this sounds like an exercise in futility. Not to mention torture, since the treatment seems to cause her extreme pain and for what? A few more weeks? Months? She’s not going to last a year, dumbfuck. In fact, the treatment itself may make it even worse.
You obviously have some serious issues about this, and you need to deal with them instead of constantly trying to push them on everyone here. Otherwise, shut the fuck up already and quit trying to tell everyone that refusing medical care is murder. You’re a sick bastard, and you need therapy.
And a 4-year-old is in absolutely no position to make that kind of decision, nor do her parents have any right to make it for her.
We’ll never know if we kill her now.
…Worse than being dead?
Refusing medicine to a sick child is no better than refusing food to a hungry child. To deny a child something which they will die if they don’t get it is absolutely murder, and you need to acknowledge that that’s what you’re advocating for.
YOU once said you wouldn’t even risk your life to save a child in the first place! So shut up the fucking hell up, you goddamned troglogdyte! You make me sick!
And I’ve also said that I choose not to be a parent so that I won’t have to face such a dilemma.
If you’re saying that you are a parent and would allow your child to die in a situation where you are in absolutely no personal risk whatsoever (as opposed to the hypothetical you reference, where I was asked to put my own life in danger), then by your logic you must be an even worse person than you believe I am.
If only there was a way to make it appear as though she might be resisting a police officer. Then Sampti would be falling all over himself to have her put down.
There isn’t any. Therefore, either suicide is always the wrong choice because life has value and should not be destroyed needlessly, or suicide is the only correct choice because we’re all going to die in pain eventually anyway and there’s no use in drawing out the inevitable.
Only one of those options is compatible with the continued survival of human civilization and culture. I’ve chosen that one. You’ve chosen the path of universal self-destruction.
“Being dead” is a kind of contradiction in terms. Actually being dead is rather peaceful: no pain, no hunger, no sorrow. We all were in that state for the first 14 billion years of the universe’s existence, and got along pretty well that way.
There are definitely degrees of suffering that are vastly worse than merely “being dead.” When there is no hope for improvement, why prolong the suffering?
Smapti, did something happen to you as a child? It seems like you’ve gone through something traumatic, and you’ve never received proper counseling to deal with it.
I’m asking seriously, because I really can’t figure out where your mind is at.
My mother survived two suicide attempts when I was young. I’m sure I’ve elaborated on the specifics in the past if you care to go looking for them.
I suspect that many of the people who are so completely OK with the idea of suicide haven’t actually experienced the consequences of one, even an unsuccessful one, on those left behind.
Smapti, you are seeing this case as “murder.” Others see it as “mercy.” I myself am not entirely comfortable with this case, and I am glad I am not in the family’s position, watching a child suffer so desperately with no hope to cling to.
We may all be dying, but I asked you upthread if you felt that adults who enter hospice care – no longer forcing themselves out of bed to go to work – are simply lazy, or if you acknowledge that there is pain and suffering far more acute than your own.
I am very sorry your mother attempted suicide. If I may ask, how many people have you lost to a devastating illness such as cancer? Do you realize that painkillers often stop working on those near death?
What’s ironic, here, is the way Smapti has been sneering at the parents for expressing a no less rational faith that things will turn out alright. The only real difference is that, unlike the existence of an afterlife, there’s verifiable, objective, peer-reviewed evidence that Smapti is wrong.
