Alright, I’m in my junior year here and starting to look into graduate programs. I want to ultimately get a PhD in paleontology, but after discussing it with my professor it seems I ought to try going through a masters program first (my grades average around the C level). I’ve started using http://www.gradschools.com to look up programs in Ecology & Evolution, from which I could go on to paleo or have other options if I ever change my mind.
I just wanted to ask the Dopers here what advice they have about all this. General grad school advice is welcome, and advice on my particular subject path is greatly appreciated. For instance, any recommendations of certain grad schools/programs? Any information and advice you people can offer is happily accepted.
My experience is that if you want to get your PhD, just get your PhD. Once you have a PhD, no one will care that you have a Masters, and getting a Masters first can be a lot of extra work.
That’s what the original plan was, but with a straight C average in all my bio courses, I was told that it might be easier getting into a masters program first. I have been doing undergraduate paleo research, though, which would undoubtedly give me some kind of help in the application process, but whether it’s enough to get into a PhD program or not is worth considering.
Don’t you always have to get a master’s degree before you can have a doctorate? Or is this different in the sciences? In most of the disciplines I know, the issue would be whether you apply to a program that grants a terminal master’s degree, or a (probably more competitive) program where students are expected to go on and get the PhD from the same university.
One general piece of advice: Unless you are absolutely certain that grad school is the right path for you, it’s worth taking a year off first. If you can find work in your field, the experience may compensate for low grades; if you have some money saved up, this is the perfect time to do some traveling or volunteering and return to school with your batteries recharged. Even if you spend a year working at some job completely unrelated to your degree, it’s better to be earning money than spending it while you’re figuring out what to do with your life.
(Actually, I’m being a bit of a hypocrite here – I went to grad school straight out of college, and it was probably the right choice for me at the time, but I do regret the fact that I didn’t seriously consider doing anything else. You don’t get too many chances to take off in the middle of a PhD program.)
All the professors I’ve talked to say that a master’s isn’t required to obtain a PhD. If/when I do apply for a master’s program, I want to try and make sure that at least a good percentage of students go on to get a PhD (whether it’s from that same school or not).
I suppose I am fairly certain I want to go to grad school. What I’d most likely end up doing, after a PhD, is teaching at a university (it’s not like I can live full-time off of grant money for paleo research). I will consider taking a year off though. Of course, that opens up a whole new can of worms of figuring out what exactly to do during that year… Thanks for the help though!
I don’t know about other fields, but this is not true in the sciences. Most physics and astronomy departments I looked at (including the one I’m now in) just hand one the master’s when one finishes the number of hours required by their graduate college, if at all. I also remember one where students could do a master’s if they wanted to, which required a thesis, but it was not mandatory for the PhD.
In the neuroscience and cell/molecular bio programs that my ex-GF applied to, most, including the one she’s now in at Berkeley, did not offer the master’s at all, nor was one required (or common) for admission.
Yep, Philbuck is right. In the sciences, where a PhD is required to get a job in the field, most people go from undergrad straight into a PhD program. In my physics department, the masters came just from taking a certain number of graduate courses. It’s sort of a consolation prize for if you end up not getting your PhD, otherwise no one cares about it at all.
However, I don’t know if it’s easier to get into a master’s program with low grades than a PhD program. It may be. I would definitely apply to some PhD programs, even if you also apply to some master’s programs – you might be surprised. My physics GRE scores were terrible, but I still got into a really good grad school, mostly due to good research experience and letters of recommendation, and a shortage of grad students on their part. You never know.
Yeah, I’m hoping for this. I think my research really ought to help me; I’m working on fully describing a paleozoic fish and my professor has been real happy with my progress so far (I expect to be done by the end of next semester).
I’m glad I’ve gotten lots of help regarding the type of program I apply for; this is one aspect I hadn’t gotten too much information on before now. I think I will try applying for some of both.
It’d be great if there’s someone on the boards who’s familiar with any paleontology/ecology & evolution programs (Darwin’s Finch maybe?) so I can get some insight on where some good areas are. I’ve briefly looked at UCONN, just because it’s close to home (though location does not matter), and two of my best friends will be there at the same time. I’m going to try and visit and talk to some professors, if possible, once I’m back home at some point. I’ve also looked at University of Kansas; their program looked pretty good while I was scanning through the various grad schools. They offer a degree (both master’s and PhD) in Ecology & Evolutionary Biology, with a specialization in a broad range of topics, one of them being paleontology. Of course, other than this program, I know nothing about this school and it’s reputation. Just because a program looks good on their site doesn’t necessarily mean it is…
Thanks again to everyone who’s helped so far!
Dirx
I’d highly recommend picking up the books The PhD Process and Getting What You Came For. Both of these books offer a lot of information on getting into grad school, finding the right program, professor, etc.
Whether it’s common to first do a Master’s or not depends on your program and field. I’m not sure about paleontology, but most ecologists do a Master’s first. In programs where this is the norm, only exceptional candidates are accepted as PhD students with only a B.S. However, you may look into PhD conditional programs, where you’d be considered a Master’s student. After a couple semesters of good performance, you may be able to petition to move into a PhD track.
I’m currently a semester out from completing my Master’s, and I’m glad I didn’t go straight through to PhD. If I’d taken time off after my BS, I think it would have been doable, but seven years of school is quite a bit. I’m burned out. Graduating with an MS will give me a chance to work for a year or two and regroup before going for the PhD. The majority of my graduate credits will transfer into a similar PhD program, so there’s very little loss of time. Also, I’ve gained a lot of valuable experience about feasibilty of research projects, experimental design, departmental politics, etc. I also know what to look for in a PhD program now, something I was clueless about when I started my Master’s. Just some food for thought.
I’m not sure if this applies to paleontology, but some of the heavyweight business schools look down their noses at those who get an MBA prior to a Ph.D in business.
Similar to as stated above, many Ph.D business programs offer a simultaneous MBA/Ph.D program for those with a BA.
FWIW, I’d strongly recommend at least 2-3 year in the RW prior to gradual school, especially if you are young. As noted above, you can kiss your life good bye for 4-5 years once you get going. Programs differ, but mine was 16X7 which doesn’t leave much time for eating, sleeping and bathing, let alone having a life.