Graduate School and the GRE exam...

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I am considering going back to school to get my masters degree in geology (my B.S. is in geology) The only thing that freaks me out about it is the GRE exam.

I have always done well in school, but when it comes to those “standardized” tests, I always have some sort of an anxiety or panic attack (think deer in headlights).

From what I understand of the GRE is that you are only scored against the people taking the test with you on that particular day, so it has no “rigid” scoring system such as the ACTs or the SATs.

If that is the case, how exactly is it scored and how is it determined that you are worthy of graduate school?

2

First thing I would recommend is getting the prospectus for schools you are interested in applying to. A lot of times they have the median GRE score for the previous year’s entering class. That will give you an idea of where the “thick middle” of the class falls. (Of course half will score more, half will have scored less.)

Call the admissions office, and if you’re comfortable doing so, talk to them about your concerns about the GRE. Ask how test scores are weighted compared to college grades, work experience, statement of purpose, etc. They might offer to connect you to students who can also give their view on how tests are valued in the admissions process.

I took the GRE back in 2000 when the CAT (computer-adapted test) was the only option available. The test calibrates itself according to your performance. Really simply, it gets harder if you answer more questions correctly; it gets easier if you answer more questions incorrectly.

I didn’t take a course but people I know took Kaplan courses and they found it helpful. You can get a book or a program on your computer to take practice tests. Familiarity is a big part of overcoming your test phobia.

I have no idea how scores are calculated - but I do know that I had a pretty strong package before I took the test, and I believe I did average to better than average on it, depending on section. If you feel your package is in good shape (recs, grades, experiences, statement) and the institutions to which you’re applying are “full file reviewers” (in other words, they want to look at the entire student - no cut-off scores, which is what most grad programs do, I expect) then you might not need to worry about the GRE that much. But find out what the schools you’re interested in want to see from their students, and you can then worry accordingly!

Good luck!

3

No advice, but I’m considering my master’s in geology too (although I’m still working on my BS). Have you taken a field camp? Any ideas where you want to stud or concentrate on? I’m still a couple years away from graduating, but have started thinking about what to do after I graduate. Unfortunately, I can’t even decide on what to do my senior research project on.

4

[QUOTE=LVgeogeek]
I am considering going back to school to get my masters degree in geology (my B.S. is in geology) The only thing that freaks me out about it is the GRE exam.

I have always done well in school, but when it comes to those “standardized” tests, I always have some sort of an anxiety or panic attack (think deer in headlights).

From what I understand of the GRE is that you are only scored against the people taking the test with you on that particular day, so it has no “rigid” scoring system such as the ACTs or the SATs.

If that is the case, how exactly is it scored and how is it determined that you are worthy of graduate school?
[/QUOTE]

Took the GRE November 2005. Studied for MONTHS for it. No you are not scored against the people taking the test - that is a myth. All GRE tests are now computer based, which sucks cause you can’t skip any questions that way. It’s a sliding scale - you start with a score of 400 and if you get a question wrong, it lowers your score and then when you get a question right, your score will increase. All GRE prep work recommends you work extra extra hard on the first ten questions to bump your score up to a comfortable level.

It depends on the program you are applying to if you are “worthy.” MIT accepts a bare minimum of 1200 but by no means does that mean you are a shoe in to get in. On the other hand, the same program at UCLA didn’t even require a GRE. All depends.

5

As far as scoring, the emphasis on the first few questions is very important. You get easier or harder questions as you go along depending on how well you do on the first few questions. The harder questions give you the ability to score more points, so you need to get them and get them right to get a really high score.

It’s kind of like a video game, where you can only get the really good bonuses if you advance to the higher screens without getting killed.

Most schools, especially for a science program like geology, will probably care much more about your quantitative score than the verbal or writing scores. I was able to prepare successfully for the quantitative part using just the free booklet and CD that come when you register for the GRE. If you have time, money, and test anxiety, something like Kaplan may not be a bad idea.

I would say absolutely don’t let the GRE hold you back from something you want to do!!

6

[QUOTE=LVgeogeek]
From what I understand of the GRE is that you are only scored against the people taking the test with you on that particular day, so it has no “rigid” scoring system such as the ACTs or the SATs.
[/QUOTE]

In case you haven’t gathered from the previous responses. this part is 100% false. It is you against the computer but it has nothing to do with anyone else taking it that day. The way that the score is derived is a bit different with the CAT system but the statistics fundamentals are the same as they always were and the same as the SAT. The computer basically just figures out your “level” on each subtest and focuses your energy there to find out where you stand. The scores till span time and can be easily compared against other people.

I have taken it twice and the CAT is rather nice. You just sit in a room with a computer and there may or may not be anyone else in the room taking the GRE with you and, if they are, they probably won’t be on the same time schedule. You get your scores as soon as you finish as well as opposed to weeks for the paper version.

The computer version is the only one available now. The verbal section is much harder than the SAT verbal section but the math is actually easier because so many people are rusty at that point and there is a math subject test for people going to graduate school in a mathematical field.

7

[QUOTE=Harriet the Spry]
As far as scoring, the emphasis on the first few questions is very important. You get easier or harder questions as you go along depending on how well you do on the first few questions. The harder questions give you the ability to score more points, so you need to get them and get them right to get a really high score.

/QUOTE]

Not true. All the questions, no matter what level of difficulty, are worth the same score.

-DVsickgirlDV, GRE/SAT prep instructor for 2 years.

8

[QUOTE=DVsickgirlDV]
All GRE tests are now computer based, which sucks cause you can’t skip any questions that way.
[/QUOTE]
Wow, that really sucks. You really can’t skip and go back the way you would be able to with a written test??

I’m happy I took them years ago, with paper bubbles to fill in and no essay.

9

Thanks for the answers. It clarifies some of the “mystery” about the GRE.

I would be going to UNLV to do my masters, that is where I did my BS, and I know and love most of the professors in the department there. Plus the professor I would like to work under has local projects and understands that I cannot be a full-time grad student, due to having a job and responsibilties and all. But she’s totally cool that way.

Also, I live here in Las Vegas, have a decent job, own a house and I’m married (and Mr Geek has really good job) so I am staying here. UNLV has an excellent geology program, so I am not disapointed in the least about that.

UNLV, I know isn’t all selective like MIT or some ivy league school, so I don’t think I need a fantastic score to get in. I think to get in as an undergarduate, all you need is a pulse and some money. Mr Geek had something like a 550 on his GRE, but he didn’t study and hardly had any sleep the night before. He is also really smart and doesn’t freak out over tests. :mad:

[QUOTE=Boscibo]
No advice, but I’m considering my master’s in geology too (although I’m still working on my BS). Have you taken a field camp? Any ideas where you want to stud or concentrate on? I’m still a couple years away from graduating, but have started thinking about what to do after I graduate. Unfortunately, I can’t even decide on what to do my senior research project on.
[/QUOTE]

Cool, another geologist :slight_smile: I did take field camp, although at UNLV, it is broken down into 3 classes instead of being one big 6-7 week adventure. Here, Field 1 is taken in the fall semester as a once a week all day class. Field 2 is taken during break between fall and spring semester, is 2 weeks long and usually goes camping whilst mapping and such, although mine was local and got to come home every night. Field 3 is the biggie, 3 weeks, usualy in the middle of nowhere, living in tent the whole time. So I spent a lot of time mapping in a lot of different places out west. Quite an experience. However, I will never take showers and toilets for granted again!!!

I am interested in focusing on Structural Geology. No specific topic, but I am a huge fan of thrust faults and subduction zones :smiley:

10

i hate when I hit submit too soon…

[QUOTE=Hippy Hollow]
Call the admissions office, and if you’re comfortable doing so, talk to them about your concerns about the GRE. Ask how test scores are weighted compared to college grades, work experience, statement of purpose, etc. They might offer to connect you to students who can also give their view on how tests are valued in the admissions process.
[/QUOTE]

I didn’t even think about doing that- duh. I think I will do that when I can find some time.

Thanks for that suggestion :slight_smile:

11

I took the GRE a few months ago, in preparation of my application to graduate school.

I agree with Shagnasty about how the math and verbal compare with the SAT, while making an addition on one point: the verbal and math sections are given to you as soon as you are done, but the essay and analytical portion grades does not come back until a while (in my case, a month) later.

I test very well (though it never feels that way when actually testing), so I was able to do it using only a book. I do not recommend this approach, and suggest that you use anything availible, such as the preparation courses.

Finally, answering the question as to how it is graded: same system as the SAT for the math and verbal, and a 1 to 6 point system for the essay and analytical sections.

12

The scoring system on the verbal and quantitative section is basically the same as the old 1600 point SAT scoring system. The test is designed by the same people using the same methodology and tests equivalent skills. If you are curious how you will do on it, you can just look at your old SAT scores. This won’t hold if you were sick or something during the SAT or if you don’t prepare at all for the GRE but an equivalent effort should give you roughly the same results. A hundred point difference or so isn’t unheard of but don’t expect to score, say a 1400 on the GRE, if you got an 1150 on the SAT. I took the GRE once on paper and once on the computer 10 years apart and managed to see a 60 point increase on mine with lots of preparation. That is fairly large in standard deviation terms but people don’t tend to move around huge amounts in raw scores on these tests.

13

I’m going to take the GRE in a few weeks and I’m somewhat anxious over it. I’m usually a good standardized test taker, but I’m uncertain about the whole adaptive part of the test. I’m worried that I’ll screw up the first few questions and then it will be downhill from there.

So how tough was the math part of the exam? I know it’s only high school math and not very advanced high school math at that, but I hate the way they ask their questions.

Also I read that next year, they’re revamping the test and it won’t be computer adaptive any longer. I’m sort of annoyed that this is too late for me but the test will also be a lot longer, about 4.5 hours instead of 2.5.

14

[QUOTE=Arien]
So how tough was the math part of the exam? I know it’s only high school math and not very advanced high school math at that, but I hate the way they ask their questions.
[/QUOTE]

It is actually a quantitative subtest and not a math subtest. They just need the math to test much of that. That is why the pure math involved is easier than the SAT. College graduates tend not to be at that level anymore. I mention that because they do use seemingly simple math problems to test complex concepts (I guess you could cal some of them trick questions). However, it should be no harder for you than the SAT math section and the great majority are just straightforward math and logic problems. The test actual math ability on a special subject test for people that need to test for that.

The scoring is on a normal curve. You aren’t going to bomb it on a few questions and the result should be roughly the same as other standardized tests you have taken.

15

With the math, we always teach that 75% of the math questions are just reading the question. They are very tricky and try to mislead you. Yes the actual math part is only equivalent to 8th grade math, but they way they phrase the questions are very complicated. I highly recommend buying a book and purchasing software (the bare basics) to prepare for the GRE.

16

[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
The scoring system on the verbal and quantitative section is basically the same as the old 1600 point SAT scoring system. The test is designed by the same people using the same methodology and tests equivalent skills. If you are curious how you will do on it, you can just look at your old SAT scores. This won’t hold if you were sick or something during the SAT or if you don’t prepare at all for the GRE but an equivalent effort should give you roughly the same results. A hundred point difference or so isn’t unheard of but don’t expect to score, say a 1400 on the GRE, if you got an 1150 on the SAT. I took the GRE once on paper and once on the computer 10 years apart and managed to see a 60 point increase on mine with lots of preparation. That is fairly large in standard deviation terms but people don’t tend to move around huge amounts in raw scores on these tests.
[/QUOTE]

I highly disagree with this. The scoring on the SAT is different than the GRE. Yes they both are on a 1600 point scale, but with the SAT, you don’t start with a median score of 400 and then it’s a sliding scale from there… you basically start with 200 and work you way up. and NO you do not get the automatic 400 points (or whatever the urban legend is) for writing your name in. Also the SAT is still paper based which gives you the option to skip questions and leave them blank if necessary. You do not have that option with the GRE. They are still very difference tests. The vocabulary on the GRE is much more difficult than the SAT and although the actual math part is not as difficult, the questions aren’t as straightfoward and leave more room for error. I think with the right preparation, it is very possible for someone to get a great score on the GRE even if they bombed on the SAT (I am the prime example of that).

17

From the ETS GRE site here, regarding how answering more difficult questions increases the score, and how more difficult questions are provided to those answering early questions correctly.

http://www.ets.org/portal/site/ets/menuitem.1488512ecfd5b8849a77b13bc3921509/?vgnextoid=ebd42d3631df4010VgnVCM10000022f95190RCRD&vgnextchannel=54c846f1674f4010VgnVCM10000022f95190RCRD
“With adaptive testing, an examinee is administered a set of questions with a difficulty level that is specifically designed to match the examinee’s ability level. The mathematical process for calculating a score in this situation incorporates the statistical properties of the questions, the examinee’s performance on the questions, and the number of questions that are answered.”

18

[QUOTE=DVsickgirlDV]
I highly disagree with this. The scoring on the SAT is different than the GRE. Yes they both are on a 1600 point scale, but with the SAT, you don’t start with a median score of 400 and then it’s a sliding scale from there… you basically start with 200 and work you way up. and NO you do not get the automatic 400 points (or whatever the urban legend is) for writing your name in. Also the SAT is still paper based which gives you the option to skip questions and leave them blank if necessary. You do not have that option with the GRE. They are still very difference tests. The vocabulary on the GRE is much more difficult than the SAT and although the actual math part is not as difficult, the questions aren’t as straightfoward and leave more room for error. I think with the right preparation, it is very possible for someone to get a great score on the GRE even if they bombed on the SAT (I am the prime example of that).
[/QUOTE]

I was once no slacker when it can to psychometrics and the statistical methods associated with it. I think you focusing on superficial differences that really aren’t that meaningful when you get deeper into the theory and stats. They are designed by the same company, have (or had at least) the same grading scale, test the same skills, are designed to have a median of about 1000 and a standard deviation of 100, and they are designed to correlate highly with one another.

If you are skeptical of that obvious correlation, I am sure you will be pretty surprised to know that you can translate SAT, ACT, GRE, and any of the major IQ tests pretty well from one to the other. The GRE to SAT conversion is very strong for most people unless there are some serious outside factors.

There are conversion charts all of the web that are academically based. Here are some. This stuff just doesn’t move around that much for most people throughout life.

19

I should add that people seem to be making too much of this CAT thing. Here is how it works.

Traditional Paper Test:

  1. 20 easy questions
  2. 20 medium ones
  3. 20 hard ones

The statistics behind that figure out your score based on the number and the types of questions you got right or wrong.

CAT:

  1. One Medium question
  2. Level goes up or down based on whether you get it right or not.
  3. Questions float up and down in difficulty trying to find the point where you are getting X percent of the questions right and X percent wrong.

The results of both of these approaches should be almost identical except the number of questions administered can be much lower with the CAT. The computer doesn’t need to ask you any more easy questions if you have gotten them all right and doesn’t need to ask you any more of the hardest questions if you have gotten them all wrong. It will zero in on your score somewhere in the middle. This demonstrates greater testing efficiency even if the bank of questions you see on the CAT were all included on the paper test as well. You also don’t “bomb out” by missing a question within your ability level. If you miss several, it rightly assumes that they are truly not in your range of ability.

20

I took the generalize GRE back in 2001 or 2002. Some things I can tell you:

The math is about as hard as the math section of the SAT. Possibly a little bit more challanging, but not by much, if at all. The verbal multiple choice section was much harder than the SAT. IIRC, something like 10% of the people who take the basic GRE get an 800 on the math. Something like only 0.1% get an 800 on the verbal.
Also… and I don’t know if this is worth anything… I read somewhere that the writing section is graded by college professors. Now, out of the three sections, this is usually my weekest. I had the choice of a couple of topics; the one I picked was somewhat political. When I wrote my response, I decided to try to give it a left-leaning slant. Not over the top, but decidedly liberal. I don’t know if the views I wrote effected my score, but I got one of the highest scores possible. Not bad for a scientist-type.

Good luck.