I’m a longtime lurker, but I’ve risen from anonymity just to ask whether “i.e.” is used properly in these sentences (and, if you wish, whether they make grammatical sense overall):
“Even so, the orange may yet carry some symbolism as an eponym of the color, i.e., an orange is orange.”
“Ruiz advises her brother to consider the orange because the orange is an autonymous unit and thus, from her unwilling viewpoint, a model by which to live, i.e., Ruiz insists that her brother identify himself by his innate male biology.”
I also use “i.e.” twice in a paragraph, so, even if it’s used properly in both sentences, can anyone offer any alternatives? Thank you in advance.
I think that in the first sentence, you want “e.g.”. “i.e.” means “that is to say”, or “in other words”. On the other hand, “e.g.” means “for example”.
In your first example, “an orange is an orange” is an example of a phrase where the orange symbolizes something else. It’s not a restatement of the original statement.
In the second sentence, “Ruiz insists that her brother identify himself by his innate male biology” is a clarification of the intent of the first part of the sentence. It clarifies the connection between the orange and Ruiz’s meaning.
At any rate, I can’t make heads or tails of either of those two sentences. I hope you just stuck in the word “orange” for amusement value.
As Giles* notes, this isn’t quite right. I.e. does not mean “for example.” That distinction goes to “e.g.” whereas “i.e.” means “that is” or “to wit” or “that is to say.”
Correct: “Our current president (i.e. Obama) lives in Washington.”
— Translation: “Our current president (that is, Obama) lives in Washington.”
Technically correct, but nonsensical: “Our current president (e.g. Obama) lives in Washington.”
— Translation: “Our current president (for example, Obama) lives in Washington.”
However, it would be correct to say “Some presidents (e.g. Obama) have lived in Washington.”
To the OP – in your first example, it’s hard to tell which is correct from context, but it seems like e.g. would be more appropriate since you seem to be giving an example of the principle. In the second example, neither seems to be appropriate. If you can’t replace it with “for example” or “that is” then you shouldn’t use these abbreviations.
Thanks, all, for your feedback! It seems my sentences are nonsensical out of context, though. Let me clarify and try to justify my use of i.e. in the above sentences.
My first sentence essentially dilutes to: “An orange is an eponym of the color orange; that is to say, an orange is orange.” Does this justify the use of i.e.?
My second sentence essentially dilutes to: “She advises her brother to consider the orange as a model by which to live; that is to say, she advises her brother to identify himself by his innate male biology.”
I have never in my life actually heard someone pronounce the Latin words for the letters. Either they pronounce the letters (most common, in my experience), or they substitute in the English equivalent.
Quite the contrary, the version with “that is to say” is both much clearer and much more graceful than the version with “i.e.”.
Again, this reads better with “that is to say” than with “i.e.”, but I cannot make any sense of it in either case. How on earth can an orange be a model by which to live (strive to be spherical, wrinkly, tart, and, um, orange, my son), and what has citrus fruit got to do with innate male biology?
Anyway, in literary writing, which this seems to be intended to be, the English equivalents are almost always preferable to “i.e.”, or “e.g.”, or, indeed, almost all other abbreviations. The abbreviations have their place in scientific and scholarly writings, formal, reports, and the like, but are only very rarely appropriate in novels, stories, or belles lettres.
Seconded. No one I have ever known says the actual Latin, and in fact, even though I am quite familiar with e.g. and i.e. and when to use each, I didn’t even know what latin words they were abbreviating.
The same in my experience. If this is a rule, it’s news to me, as well as to anyone I’ve ever heard reading the abbreviations. Likewise with et al. “Etc.” is however pronounced et cetera.
