so i was reading this thread, Grammar: “There are” “There is”, where it appears the OP’s question is still up in the air.
so what’s the argument for having singular and plural forms in english? i’m sure many other languages do well enough without them.
Engls sntnces cntain fa mor nfrmation thn u actuly ned n ordr to gt th basc idea acrss
(And that was a generous example; you probably would’ve understood the sentence if I’d left out even more information than I did).
You absolutely gotta have something to indicate singular or plural: the difference between one cop showing up outside your door and a bunch of cops showing up is pretty significant. I’ve never heard of a language that lacks noun plurals. I’m guessing you’re asking about verb plural forms, though. These mostly exist to reinforce the noun plural: it’s a bit of extra information that makes it easier to understand the meaning of the sentence.
Daniel
'There are eight apples on the table."
let’s take the above sentence for example. in mandarin, it seems to do well without both forms:
‘zhuo zi shang you ba li ping guo.’ or loosely,
‘on the table got eight apple.’
so is it just extraneous information or is it needed?
The plural form tells you that you have more than one, without necessarily telling exactly how many. In Mandarin, how would you say, “There are some apples on the table?”
As to the form of the plural, Western languages often omit the plural on a noun. French does this extensively in speaking, as the final -s is often not pronounced. English, too, has words like deer that do not have plural marking; yet in all these examples, the the plural number is usually marked by a change in the verb, or in the structure of the sentence, for instance,
The deer ran away when they saw the hunter
Nope, you don’t. There are languages that don’t have plural noun forms or verb forms indicating number either. Japanese is one example:
Gakusei wa uchi ni imasu.
This sentence can mean “The student is in the house” or “The students are in the house.” Neither the noun (gakusei) or the verb (imasu) change based on how many students you’re talking about.
The problem with this explanation is that it suggests at some point a conscious decision was made about plural forms in English. This isn’t the case. Our noun-verb agreement in English is really just the remnants of a much more complex system of agreement that existed at a much earlier point in the language.
There isn’t really an argument. Syntax on such a basic level is not consciously agreed upon in natural languages. English has singular and plural forms because it does. Some languages don’t have any plural forms and some have more nuanced plurality than English. To you looking at those languages it might seem like overkill, just as to a Japanese speaker English’s noun-verb agreement and explicit plurality (with attendant irregular forms) might seem like overkill.
translated loosely, ‘on the table got some apple.’
btw, i’m not saying mandarin do not have plural forms, just giving an example.
what hazel-rah said makes sense.
There is a plural noun marker in Korean, but it’s only used when necessary for clarification.
hmm, the examples given so far are korean, japanese and chinese. all sort of related. any other languages out there not so concerned with the plural form?
Tagalog (Filipino) uses mga (pronounced “mangá”) to indicate plurality, but doesn’t have different noun/verb forms for this.
Tumatahol ang aso. - The (assumed singular) dog is barking.
Tumatahol ang isang aso. - The (definitely singular) dog is barking.
Tumatahol ang mga aso. - The dogs (definitely plural) are barking.
The word isang, derived from isa (=one), is used when the speaker wishes to emphasize singularity.