Your explanation of the difference between Great Britain, the UK, and England was was condescending and convoluted, and it did not address the spirit of the question, which is: how are the terms GB, UK, and England applied differently in general language usage? This is not “a 6th grade geography question,” as you say, but an intriguing linguistic one.
I will admit, though, the Straight Dope answer to this question does remind me a little of 6th grade geography: it looks like it was copied right out of the World Book Encyclopedia.
I’ve read a few other answers on Straight Dope, and I’ve been impressed with the concise, relevant, and highly readable presentation. My petty critique notwithstanding, your site is a valuable resource.
I’ll add one more thought: there are Latin Americans who are offended by the use of the name “America” to refer to the United States. Many from Peru and Argentina consider themselves to be from “America,” which technically may comprise all of North and South America. But common Western nomenclature may disagree with them.
Then there are the discrepancies between Central America, South America, Latin America, and the Americas. How many “Americans” are familiar with the differences between all of these?
I’m not in the habit of posting, no less replying to my own posts, so I’ll sign off.
Thanks for your thoughts, Dan, and welcome to the Straight Dope Message Boards.
I have to say, I’m not sure what your complaint is. I don’t see that there’s a lot of difference between the article you cited and the Staff Report, except that the Staff Report is shorter on the history and politics, and longer on the geography, than is your cite. And the Staff Report doesn’t cover the question of which flag is flown or which anthem played at football games. Nor does the Staff Report make condescending remarks about the BBC.
I would be curious to see what you think an answer should look like. Any one can sit on the sidelines and grumble about how inadequate the other fellow’s work was. How about you offer your version?
And I’m not sure what Peru feels is relevant to the Scottish situation. The question of the differences between “the Americas” and “North America” and “America, United States of” would be a separate question, which you could pose to Cecil or Staff in mail, or in the forum called GENERAL QUESTIONS.
And I do recognize that the tone of the Staff Report was condescending. I guess that’s because I felt that the information being requested was available almost anywhere, including any encyclopedia and dozens of websites. I hate doing kids’ homework for them. So it was a Report that I was commanded to write, and my sentiment undoubtedly shows through.
One could say, trivially, that the Bailiwick of Jersey and the Bailiwick of Guernsey have their own Internet domains (.je and .gg), which England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland do not. They also have their own national flags.
More significantly, Parliament in London does not make laws for them (although it often recommends laws, which are usually adopted, so as to keep the Islands as much in synch with the UK – and the EU – as may be).
The same things, generally speaking, are true of the Isle of Man (Internet domain .im), although its exact status is not the same as the Channel Islands.
A further complication, by the way, is the extra islands that are within the United Kingdom, such as the Isle of Wight (England), or the Hebrides, Shetlands, and Orkneys (Scotland).
ardipithecusrex:
The geographical definitions and nomentclature appropriate to the various parts of the British Isles are certainly more complex than applies to most countries, and there have been several General Questions threads posted about the subject. But here’s the mailbag question in full:
“What’s the difference between Great Britain, the United Kingdom, and England? They all seem the same, but different. Do they have different boundaries? Which include Wales and Northern Ireland? Do they have different governments?”
Where in that question did you detect the “spirit…, which is: how are the terms GB, UK, and England applied differently in general language usage?” - it certainly reads like a simple geography question to me.
Also, the unconvincing and unqualified remark you snipped from that article tends to weaken it as an authoritative source as far as I can see. Whilst people from these islands make far more mistakes than I think they should, it is nonsensical to claim that “most people say England, when they mean Britain”.
Actually, Great Britain is the political body comprising England, Scotland and Wales, and as such includes places like the Isle of Wight (part of England) and the Scotish Isles; Orkney, Shetland, Skye, etc. (all part of Scotland). 'Twas indeed created by the Act of Union. This, together with Northern Ireland form the UK.
The large island of which you speak is called ‘Britain’ and has been around for alot longer than ‘Great Britain’. It doesn’t include Isle of Wight, Orkney, etc.
To add to the confusion the nationality of people from the UK, (including NI) is ‘British’.
This is not strictly true. The large island was indeed called “Britain” up to the 16th century, but it is now officially “Great Britain” (to distinguish it from “Lesser Britain”, now known as Brittany). Cecil says so.
Here’s a cite for the definition of UK “British” nationality. This was a piece of my ignorance against which the SDMB successfully fought.
Oh and Paddle, you do know that residents of Northern Ireland are entitled to Irish passports (if they want them) - by your definition that makes them Irish (if they want to be).
And so does any medieval historian who has pulled his hair out in clumps while dealing with the fact that, in period documents, “Britain”, “Bretagne”, etc., are used indifferently to signify both.
Okay, so now that everything is perfectly clear, what term does one apply (formally or colloquially) to the people of United Kingdom citizenship (er, subjecthood?)? Are they “Britons,” “Britishers,” “Brits” (seemingly unfair to NI persons), or “United Kingdomese,” “UKers,” “British/Northern Irish”? And on a related note - I’m assuming that “nationality” is roughly equivalent to “citizenship” while “countryship”, should there be such a term, would correspond to the concept of being a person belonging to a country rather than a nation containing that country?
All quite confusing. Can we go back to city-states now?
Well, here in the USA, we tend to use either limeys or (if in a historical mood) redcoats.
Now my late grandmother, a full-blooded descendent of refugees from the west of Ireland, had sesveral other terms. One of the few printable ones was Oppressors of the Irish.
“Briton” noun, “British” adjective. This is indeed not logically correct, but the usage became established during the period between the First and Second Acts of Union, when England (including Wales) and Scotland were the components of the United Kingdom, and Ireland was merely a possession; and it remains in use because “United Kingdomish” is just silly.
