Several leaders on the list (perhaps even Abraham Lincoln!) were responsible for many deaths; I guess we have to decide what they “have to show for” the deaths. Attila changed the history of Europe. Although he might have briefly had fame equivalent to that of Schwarzenegger or Stallone (:p) Henry V’s campaigns had little or no long-term impact.
IIRC, many of the English infantrymen at Agincourt had dysentery so bad they fought with their pants off! I’m not sure if that fact makes their battle success seem more heoric or less heroic!
Intrigue between Romans and Celtic or Germanic tribes had been habitual for centuries; the sacking of Rome was hardly the first time Italy had been invaded. Celts and Germans were even in the process of Christianization. While the beginning preceded Attila’s birth slightly, it was the Hunnic invasion from Central Asia that changed the politics of Europe:
The Hunnic Empire dissipated after Attila’s death. (And the Napoleanic Empire didn’t survive Napolean.) Some Hunnic influence may have survived in Europe, e.g. in Gothic, Norse and Balkan cultures.
Not that I have any kind of bias or anything ;), but I think you’re selling poor Genghis short. He did create an unparalleled military system for his day and established the largest land empire the world has ever seen, with an understandably very significant impact on the international trade system. Further, as to longevity, his state remained a still-expanding unitary colossus a generation after his death, the four large individual khanates that thereafter continued his legacy were everywhere the regional superpowers for another three generations, one large component lasted until 1502 essentially intact and his dynasty remained in power as late as 1783 (in Crimean Khanate ), more than five and a half centuries after he passed away. Genghisid lineage was the gold standard for legitimacy in much of western and central Asia for centuries - the Ottomans were considered as a dynasty rather intrinsically less prestigious than their nominal vassals the Giraids of Crimea ( who were rumored to have been planning a coup to replace them during a particularly chaotic point in the 17th century ). I’d dump my namesake before Genghis. But anyway :D…
Attila - 1 pt. May get less credit than he deserves, but his state did prove pretty ephemeral.
Moses - 1 pt. Too likely fictional or heavily fictionalized to give much consideration, I’m afraid.
David - 1 pt. Similar to the above and a pretty minor nation all things considered.
Wellington - 1 pt. As before.
Lech Walesa - 1 pt. Time to get rid of some of these moderns. Accomplished less than Masaryk IMHO and his presidency was not particularly successful.
Henry V - 4
Haile Selassie - 4
Santa Anna - 4
Duke of Wellington - 3
Oliver Cromwell, Charles de Gaulle, Genghis Khan, Tomas Masaryk - 2 each
Cory Aquino, Menes, Solon, Umar, Victoria, Lech Walesa - 1 each
The top three are now gone. That leaves:
Alexander the Great - Macedonian conqueror, emperor
Alfred the Great - Scholar, warrior, statesman
Cory Aquino - Restored Philippines democracy
Asoka - Early India leader
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - Modernized, ruled Turkey
Caesar Augustus - Founded Roman Empire
David Ben-Gurion - First Israeli PM
Otto von Bismarck - United German kingdoms
Simon Bolivar - Latin America liberator
Gaius Julius Caesar - Roman dictator, general
Charlemagne - Holy Roman Emperor
Winston Churchill - British wartime inspiration
Oliver Cromwell - English republican leader
Cyrus the Great - Great, benevolent conqueror
Charles de Gaulle - Led modern France
Deng Xiaoping - Remade modern China
Elizabeth I of England - Shrewd, determined queen
Frederick II - Ruled 1700s Prussia
Gandhi - Independence through peace
Genghis Khan - Mongol Empire founder
Mikhail Gorbachev - Reformed Soviet Union
Hammurabi - First written laws
Henry V of England - Legendary warrior-king
Isabella I of Castille - Unified, developed Spain
Thomas Jefferson - Declaration of Independence
Justinian I - Unleashed Gen. Belisarius
Abraham Lincoln - Won Civil War
Louis XIV - France’s “Sun King”
Nelson Mandela - Overcame imprisonment, triumphed
Tomas Masaryk - Czechoslovakia’s founding president
Meiji Emperor - Created modern Japan
Menes - Egypt-uniting pharaoh
Muhammad - United all Arabia
Napoleon I - French expansionist emperor
Nebuchadnezzar II - Babylon’s greatest ruler
Jawaharlal Nehru - Indian prime minister
Rameses II - Egypt’s greatest pharaoh
Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 32nd American president
Peter the Great - Modernized, expanded Russia
Pitt the Elder - Noted British PM
Anwar El Sadat - Egyptian warrior, peacemaker
Saladin - Muslim leader, warrior
Antonio López de Santa Anna - Mexican nationalist leader
Haile Selassie - Ethiopia’s longtime emperor
Shaka Zulu - United Zulu tribes
Qin Shi Huang - Unified China emperor
Solon - Founded Athenian democracy
Tamerlane the Great - Clever, liberal conqueror
Umar - Expanded Islamic empire
Victoria - Noted British sovereign
Lech Walesa - Polish leader, inspiration
George Washington - First U.S. president
Duke of Wellington - Statesman, general, gentleman
The current round of voting will end on Fri. May 28 at noon EST. Same rules as before.
Henry V 2
Lech Walesa 1
Duke of Wellington 1
Charlemagne 1
I trust Tamerlane’s judgment on Walesa; Wellington’s main achievements came well before his becoming Prime Minister; Charlemagne’s empire was important as a symbol of Western Europe’s self-assertion against the East, but crumbled quickly as an actual political entity.
Haile Selassie, self-indulgent tyrant who stuck around much too long - 2
Santa Anna, couldn’t hang onto Texas even after winning at the Alamo - 2
Genghis Khan, for the reasons earlier stated - 1
Henry V - 1 - I would have dumped him before Robert Bruce, really. A lot of promise unfulfilled by a short reign. Meiji - 1 - While he had some personal impact, he was still essentially a figurehead. Wellington -1 Lech Walesa - 1 Cory Aquino - 1
Henry V - 3
Duke of Wellington - 3
Lech Walesa - 2
Oliver Cromwell - 2
Umar - 2
Charlemagne, Genghis Khan, Meiji Emperor, Queen Victoria - 1 each
Tamerlane, sorry, I didn’t count your votes, since they came in past the noon deadline. Please vote in the next round.
The top three are now gone. That leaves:
Alexander the Great - Macedonian conqueror, emperor
Alfred the Great - Scholar, warrior, statesman
Asoka - Early India leader
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - Modernized, ruled Turkey
Caesar Augustus - Founded Roman Empire
David Ben-Gurion - First Israeli PM
Otto von Bismarck - United German kingdoms
Simon Bolivar - Latin America liberator
Gaius Julius Caesar - Roman dictator, general
Charlemagne - Holy Roman Emperor
Winston Churchill - British wartime inspiration
Oliver Cromwell - English republican leader
Cyrus the Great - Great, benevolent conqueror
Charles de Gaulle - Led modern France
Deng Xiaoping - Remade modern China
Elizabeth I of England - Shrewd, determined queen
Frederick II - Ruled 1700s Prussia
Gandhi - Independence through peace
Genghis Khan - Mongol Empire founder
Mikhail Gorbachev - Reformed Soviet Union
Hammurabi - First written laws
Henry V of England - Legendary warrior-king
Isabella I of Castille - Unified, developed Spain
Thomas Jefferson - Declaration of Independence
Justinian I - Unleashed Gen. Belisarius
Abraham Lincoln - Won Civil War
Louis XIV - France’s “Sun King”
Nelson Mandela - Overcame imprisonment, triumphed
Tomas Masaryk - Czechoslovakia’s founding president
Meiji Emperor - Created modern Japan
Menes - Egypt-uniting pharaoh
Muhammad - United all Arabia
Napoleon I - French expansionist emperor
Nebuchadnezzar II - Babylon’s greatest ruler
Jawaharlal Nehru - Indian prime minister
Rameses II - Egypt’s greatest pharaoh
Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 32nd American president
Peter the Great - Modernized, expanded Russia
Pitt the Elder - Noted British PM
Anwar El Sadat - Egyptian warrior, peacemaker
Saladin - Muslim leader, warrior
Shaka Zulu - United Zulu tribes
Qin Shi Huang - Unified China emperor
Solon - Founded Athenian democracy
Tamerlane the Great - Clever, liberal conqueror
Umar - Expanded Islamic empire
Victoria - Noted British sovereign
Lech Walesa - Polish leader, inspiration
George Washington - First U.S. president
Duke of Wellington - Statesman, general, gentleman
The current round of voting will end on Mon. May 31 at noon EST. Same rules as before.