Menes - 2
Victoria - 2
Wellington - 1
A word on de Gaulle, not that he’s starting to get some votes. I once said that Charles de Gaulle was the greatest politician of the 20th century. And I think that stands.
Keep in mind where he started: He didn’t even have a country, France had been defeated and was half-occupied and half-run by a collaborationist regime. De Gaulle had to invent a government in exile and convince people both that France was still a great power that deserved respect and that he was its representative. And amazingly he succeeded - within five years he was the undisputed leader of a major power. And not as a dictator - he ruled with the support of his countrymen.
It’s a matter of principle or stubbornness (you decide):
Duke of Wellington – 2
Oliver Cromwell – 2
Since Santa Anna is gone, I’ll give a debut nod to
Lech Walesa – 1
Moses 2
David 2
Walesa 1
Let’s get rid of the fictional characters, shall we?
Hmm. I could’ve sworn I saw Walesa on a news show once.
The Duke of Wellington, whose best days were in uniform, not as PM - 1
Oliver Cromwell, who wanted to rule just like a king but was too much a hypocrite to actually claim the title - 2
Genghis Khan, more a destroyer than a builder - 2
Already eliminated as of post #47 :).
Wellington - 1
Lech Walesa - 1
Henry V - 1
Meiji - 1
Victoria - 1 - She was just a little less of a figurehead than Meiji, but still far more of a symbol than an actual political leader.
Lech Walesa- 2 points
Asoka- 1 point
Justinian I- 2 points
The votes:
Lech Walesa 6
Duke of Wellington 5
Queen Victoria 5
Oliver Cromwell 4
De Gaulle, Genghis Khan, Henry V, Mandela, Menes, Nehru - 2 each
Asoka, Justinian, Meiji Emperor - 1 each
The top four are now gone. Not a good round for the Brits! That leaves:
Alexander the Great - Macedonian conqueror, emperor
Alfred the Great - Scholar, warrior, statesman
Asoka - Early India leader
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - Modernized, ruled Turkey
Caesar Augustus - Founded Roman Empire
David Ben-Gurion - First Israeli PM
Otto von Bismarck - United German kingdoms
Simon Bolivar - Latin America liberator
Gaius Julius Caesar - Roman dictator, general
Charlemagne - Holy Roman Emperor
Winston Churchill - British wartime inspiration
Cyrus the Great - Great, benevolent conqueror
Charles de Gaulle - Led modern France
Deng Xiaoping - Remade modern China
Elizabeth I of England - Shrewd, determined queen
Frederick II - Ruled 1700s Prussia
Gandhi - Independence through peace
Genghis Khan - Mongol Empire founder
Mikhail Gorbachev - Reformed Soviet Union
Hammurabi - First written laws
Henry V of England - Legendary warrior-king
Isabella I of Castille - Unified, developed Spain
Thomas Jefferson - Declaration of Independence
Justinian I - Unleashed Gen. Belisarius
Abraham Lincoln - Won Civil War
Louis XIV - France’s “Sun King”
Nelson Mandela - Overcame imprisonment, triumphed
Tomas Masaryk - Czechoslovakia’s founding president
Meiji Emperor - Created modern Japan
Menes - Egypt-uniting pharaoh
Muhammad - United all Arabia
Napoleon I - French expansionist emperor
Nebuchadnezzar II - Babylon’s greatest ruler
Jawaharlal Nehru - Indian prime minister
Rameses II - Egypt’s greatest pharaoh
Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 32nd American president
Peter the Great - Modernized, expanded Russia
Pitt the Elder - Noted British PM
Anwar El Sadat - Egyptian warrior, peacemaker
Saladin - Muslim leader, warrior
Shaka Zulu - United Zulu tribes
Qin Shi Huang - Unified China emperor
Solon - Founded Athenian democracy
Tamerlane the Great - Clever, liberal conqueror
Umar - Expanded Islamic empire
George Washington - First U.S. president
The current round of voting will end on Weds. June 2 at noon EST. Same rules as before.
Tamerlane-2 votes
Tomas Masayrk-2 votes
Charles DeGaulle-1 vote
With my choices from the last round all eliminated, it’s time to pick some new guys:
Meiji Emperor – 2 points
Pitt the Elder – 2 points
Gandhi – 1 point
Tell me more about the Meiji Emperor. What’s your beef with him?
Henry V - 2
Jawaharlal Nehru - 1
Charles de Gaulle - 1
Solon - 1
Most of the remaining names seem truly “great.” I hope advocates will post staunch defenses for their favorites. Otherwise I might vote to eliminate, say, Tomas Masaryk, on the grounds that however great he was, his country was never particularly great.
1 - Mandela - it’s really far too soon to tell
2 - de Gaulle - a bit player in WW2, obstructionist afterwards.
1 - Alexander - his empire didn’t last.
1 - Sadat - not in the same class as the rest.
Deng Xiaoping, liberalized China’s economy but still an autocrat with the blood of Tiananmen Square on his hands - 2
Genghis Khan, more a destroyer than a builder - 2
Thomas Jefferson, a hypocrite (slavery, the French Revolution) and a sneak (secretly funding an opposition newspaper while serving in Washington’s Cabinet) who’s vastly overrated as President - 1
Can I re-use my votes/nominations from the last round?
Henry V - 1pt. - Still a very short reign.
Meiji - 2 pts.
Victoria - 2 pts.
The problem with both of the latter two above is you have to stretch to call them “national leaders.” Both were technical heads of state and both exerted a very powerful symbolic uniting presence for their respective countries. But both were also figureheads to one extent or another with sharply limited political power and no real decision-making functions. For the most part they simply didn’t do much, outside of the ceremonial.
I also think Victoria is over-rated and was surprised I didn’t vote for her this round. … Then I looked again and saw she’s already been eliminated.
PS: No “thank you” for my nominating you, Tamerlane ?
You mean you just want to vote for the same people again? I suppose - just re-post them now, if so. I’d rather not have to go back and find what people did before the last tally.
Umar-2
Julius Caesar-2
Mandela-1
The votes:
Charles De Gaulle - 4
Meiji Emperor - 4
Henry V of England - 3
Deng Xiaoping, Genghis Khan, Pitt the Elder, Tamerlane, Tomas Masaryk - 2 each
Alexander, Gandhi, Jefferson, Mandela, Nehru, Sadat, Solon - 1 each
XanderCrews, I didn’t count your votes, as you cast them after the noon deadline today. Please vote in the next round.
The top three are now gone. That leaves:
Alexander the Great - Macedonian conqueror, emperor
Alfred the Great - Scholar, warrior, statesman
Asoka - Early India leader
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - Modernized, ruled Turkey
Caesar Augustus - Founded Roman Empire
David Ben-Gurion - First Israeli PM
Otto von Bismarck - United German kingdoms
Simon Bolivar - Latin America liberator
Gaius Julius Caesar - Roman dictator, general
Charlemagne - Holy Roman Emperor
Winston Churchill - British wartime inspiration
Cyrus the Great - Great, benevolent conqueror
Deng Xiaoping - Remade modern China
Elizabeth I of England - Shrewd, determined queen
Frederick II - Ruled 1700s Prussia
Gandhi - Independence through peace
Genghis Khan - Mongol Empire founder
Mikhail Gorbachev - Reformed Soviet Union
Hammurabi - First written laws
Isabella I of Castille - Unified, developed Spain
Thomas Jefferson - Declaration of Independence
Justinian I - Unleashed Gen. Belisarius
Abraham Lincoln - Won Civil War
Louis XIV - France’s “Sun King”
Nelson Mandela - Overcame imprisonment, triumphed
Tomas Masaryk - Czechoslovakia’s founding president
Menes - Egypt-uniting pharaoh
Muhammad - United all Arabia
Napoleon I - French expansionist emperor
Nebuchadnezzar II - Babylon’s greatest ruler
Jawaharlal Nehru - Indian prime minister
Rameses II - Egypt’s greatest pharaoh
Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 32nd American president
Peter the Great - Modernized, expanded Russia
Pitt the Elder - Noted British PM
Anwar El Sadat - Egyptian warrior, peacemaker
Saladin - Muslim leader, warrior
Shaka Zulu - United Zulu tribes
Qin Shi Huang - Unified China emperor
Solon - Founded Athenian democracy
Tamerlane the Great - Clever, liberal conqueror
Umar - Expanded Islamic empire
George Washington - First U.S. president
The current round of voting will end on Fri. June 4 at noon EST.
New rules: Each player now has eight votes, but may use no more than two against any particular leader at a time.