Just curious; as one of the new American fans, the whole promotion/relegation system is interesting. Has any club ever fought their way up to the top tier from the absolute bottom, or, vice versa, has a formerly great side ever fallen into the basement?
The answer is in Scotland, specifically Rangers.
In the 80s/90s. nine championships in a row.
2012 - finished 2nd in the League.
June 2012 - declared bankrupt. New team formed from the ashes of the old and was sent straight to the lowest (fifth) tier.
If you want an even steeper fall from grace and you don’t mind going back over 100 years, there was a club call Darwen. They made the 1st Division in 1893-1894.
They went bankrupt in 2008, playing in the Second Division of the North West Counties Football League. That’s a drop of nine steps in the pyramid.
Fourth tier, but still a contender for the unwanted prize.
Leeds United is generally the English warning of financial incompetence. Leeds Utd was a highly successful club, winning the League in 1991-92 (the last ever year before the birth of the Premier League) and being highly successful in the late 1990s (being among the Top 5 clubs almost all the time). Then in the early 2000s, the Chairman of the club had taken out huge loans against the prospect of the money from TV rights and sponsorships from Champions League - when Leeds just missed out on the Champions League two years in a row, they had to sell off their star players because they could make loan payments. Their very successful manager (David O’Leary) got pissed and was fired. His replacement was a disaster and the club kept selling players and falling down the standings until in 2007 they found themselves in the 3rd division of English Football. They are currently back in the 2nd division… and have a new owner who was almost refused to purchase the club by the FA, but that decisions was overturned on appeal.
Hull City is an example of a quick riser - In 2003/04 they were in the 4th tier of English football, but by 2008/09, they were in the Premier League. Yep… going from Tier 4 to the top in in 5 years. They remain in the Premiership to this day.
Thanks, folks. What’s the story of Hull City’s rise?
Agreed Portsmouth is another more recent example, going from Premier League to fourth tier in about six years (I think - haven’t looked it up). This is largely due to points deductions for breaking financial rules, and having to sell good players to pay off debt.
I’m sure there are many other examples of top-tier clubs eventually going bankrupt - Accrington Stanley is the one that springs to mind.
In terms of quick risers, you may wish to look up the story of AFC Wimbledon. Formed less than 20 years ago by passionate fans of Wimbledon FC who were upset about the team moving from London to Milton Keynes (the team is now known as the MK Dons), this team entered the pyramid at what was presumably the highest level available to them, which was still pretty low down (because that’s how the system works). After several promotions they are now in the league.
Couldn’t tell you much about Hull, I believe it’s the usual cash injection from rich owner story. I’m sure Wikipedia has a good run down of all the above-mentioned clubs.
As a general rule, it is highly unlikely a team would be able to go right from top to bottom nowadays. Of course, you could argue that every team has at some point started from the bottom, the further back you go the less clear (and less impressive) it becomes. But with football being structured as it is, it’s very rare for a small team starting out to generate enough investment to compete in the higher leagues. I mean, let’s say you are a billionaire with an interest in football. You could use your money to set up a brand new club, build a huge stadium, buy top players, etc., but you would still have to start at the bottom, so you would have several years of making huge losses before you got promoted to leagues giving you TV money and so on. As such, anyone in that position will just buy an established league club (albeit possibly in a lower division) and build up from there.
Conversely, it would be difficult for a top club to be demoted all the way to the bottom in the absence of financial penalties/bankruptcy. This is because all large clubs have significant material assets (such as their stadium, for one), if a club were somehow to continually get relegated they would be ripe for a takeover by a rich person or consortium in a similar manner to the above.
Man City fell into the third level in the 90s and only got out by the absolute skin of their teeth - 2-1 down to Gillingham in the promotion play-off game, in the 92nd minute Paul Dickov equalised with this goal:
(see Tony Pulis in charge of the Gills then)
They then won the penalty shoot-out. Had they been beaten, it could have buried the club for decades of lower league obscurity. Instead, they became one of the wealthiest and strongest teams in world football - that goal is a pivotal moment in their history.
Leeds United were a game from the Champions League final in 2001. In 2004 the were relegated. I personally look forward to the day they return to the league. Leicester City led the league for a time in 2000/2001. Were relegated in 2004. Came back this year.
Fulham were relegated from the ( old) First Division in iirc 1968. They stayed down for 35 years, at one point I think they went down to the fourth tier. They were bought by Mr Al Fayad of Harrods and Diana fame and his millions got them back up where although they never challenged for the league, they did get go a Europa League Final in 2010. They got sold to a new billionaire last year and…went down.
Watford were in the fourth division and a few years later they finished second in the top flight
Nottingham Forest had accomplished pretty much sweet fuck all in their history when Brian Clough took over as their manager in the Second Division. 15 years later when he left they were back in the second Division… but in the meantime they had been to the top, won a title and then two European Cupa in a row and then back down.
Unless we count Italians relegated as a punishment for cheating and match fixing, I think they and Manchester United are the only European Cup winners to have been relegated in regular play.
Aston Villa are going to be in a dogfight this season to prevent making it three Champions League winners relegated, however.
European Cup winners. It has only been the Champions League since 1992.
How far down do we consider “the bottom?” In English football, it looks like it’s pretty darn far to the 24th(!) rung of the pyramid, occupied by the 11th division of the Mid-Sussex Football League.
More sane-sounding “bottoms of the ladder” for top-line clubs might be League Two (the lowest tier in the Football League) or perhaps Conference Premier (the lowest level spanning the country without geographical subdivisions), but I’m guessing here.
The conference is semi-professional, so that’s a big demarcation between it and the four leagues above it. Think some conference teams might pay enough to field full time pros, but generally the players will have second jobs. Tough league to get out of, apparently - Luton town were promoted this year and they were playing first division football when I was a kid.
Can be good to watch non-league football, tickets are cheap and it’s a nice break from the circus of the EPL. The nearest team to me, though, is followed by a lot of scallies - way rougher match-going experience than a premiership game.
Never a great club but Stockport County played several seasons in the Championship (level 2) in the 1990s and are now in the depths of the Conference North (level 6). No other club has fallen so far from level 2.
Co-incidentally, County are the club I was talking about above. Sounds like catastrophic ownership over the past 10 years.
Some ones that haven’t been mentioned yet:
The original Wimbledon FC was a successful non-League side in the 1970s. After winning the Southern League 3 times they were elected to the Football League (no automatic promotion in those days) in 1977.
They were promoted in their second League season, relegated in the third, re-promoted in the fourth, re-relegated in the fifth, promoted again in the sixth - and the seventh and the ninth, arriving in the First Division nine years after joining the League and four years after playing in the Fourth.
Before Leeds United, Wolverhampton Wanderers (aka Wolves) were the poster child for epic mismanagement. First Division for most of the 1970s, they effectively went bust in the early 80s and were relegated 3 seasons running. Recovered in the 90s to become Championship regulars, they have returned to the Premiership twice in since 2000 - though their last stay ended in consecutive relegations before they bounced back to the Championship.
But the record holders have to be Swansea City.
In 1977 they were in the bottom half of the old Fourth Division, before three promotions in four seasons saw them (briefly) topping the First Division in 1981. Then the magic wore off and they went down as fast as they’d come up, ending back in the Fourth Division by 1986.
The next several years were spent bumping along the bottom of the League, culminating in 2002 when they escaped the Conference on the last day of the season. Then things turned round again and they ultimately returned to the Premiership in 2011.
There are probably older Swansea fans out there who have watched their team in the old Fourth Division, the old First Division, League Division Three (as it then was) and the Premiership - plus every division in between.
Nottingham Forest are an illustration of how a club’s fortunes can rapidly go both up and down even though they have spent their entire history in the top 3 divisions
One of the oldest surviving professional clubs founded in 1865, nevertheless they spent much of their early years in the shadow of their rivals Notts County, the oldest surviving professional football club in the World founded in 1861. When the Football League was founded in 1888 it was inevitably County and not Forest who were invited to join. Nottingham Forest joined the Football Alliance in 1889 which consisted of northern teams and in 1891 they won the Alliance and were elected to join the First Division (automatic promotion and relegation between leagues was not instituted until 1898, prior to this membership was decided by a vote of the clubs) where by the last few years of the century they had surpassed their local rivals County (who were by that time playing in the Second Division) and won the FA Cup in 1898, as well as finsihing high in the league. At this point the winning the FA Cup was arguably slightly more prestigious than winning the league as by as late as the 1900s some of the best teams in England still played outside of the professional league.
However a further major silverware would be a longtime coming and what followed was a long period of mediocrity and by the early 1950s had spent most of their history in the 2nd Division, with a few brief stays in the 1st Division and one period in the 3rd Division in the 1950-1951 season. At the end of the 1950s and 1960s they had a renewed period of success, winning the FA Cup in 1959 and finishing as runner-ups in the First division in 1967, but this came to an end in 1971 when they were relegated back to the Second Division and in 1975 were languishing in the bottom half of the Second division when the legendary Brian Clough was appointed manager.
Brian Clough was formerly an extremely talented player, one of the best forwards of the 1950s, however his career had been curtailed by injury. He had started his managerial career with moderate success at Hartlepools United in the Fourth Division, before taking over Derby County at the bottom of the Second Division where had performed a miracle by winning the Second Division in 1969 and then the First division in 1971 for the first time in Derby’s history. However whilst being remembered as one of the best football managers of all time, he is also known for his difficult and outspoken personality (and in his latter life an alcoholic) and resigned from Derby in 1973 after a major and public falling-out with the club’s owners. He had then spent a season in the 3rd Division managing Brighton, before moving onto Leeds Utd (probably the top team in the country at this time) for an infamous 44-day stint that became the subject of the film The Damned Utd, where he was played by Martin Sheen.
Brian Clough was to prove to be the man who defined Forest (they have a statue of him outside of their ground) and results picked up under him and in 1977 Forest won promotion to the First Division by finishing 3rd in the Second Division. What then followed was astounding and the most successful period of Forest’s history: in 1978 Forest won the First Division for the first time in their history, it must be noted for a new team to win the First Division wasn’t unprecedented, but it is a very rare feat and it hasn’t been achieved by anyone since. In 1979 Forest finished 2nd in the First division, but they achieved an even greater feat by winning the highest prize in club football - the European Cup as well as winning the League Cup. In 1980 they finished 5th in the First Division but repeated their successes of the previous season by winning the European Cup and League Cup again.
Clough was not able to quite replicate the massive success of his first few years in charge during his later reign, but Forest still managed to be one of the top teams in England: finsihing 3rd in the First division 3 times under Clough, reaching the semi-finals of the UEFA Cup in 1984 where they only lost due to the fact that the other team had bribed the referee (as it emerged much later) and back-to-back League Cup wins in 1989 and 1990. However after the first season of the Premiership in 1993 Forest were relegated and Clough was sacked.
After Clough Forest bounced straight back up to the Premiership where they finished 3rd, but this success was very short-lived and they were relegated again 1997 and after yo-yoing between the Premiership and the 2nd tier for a few seasons they declined and by 2005 they were relegated to the 3rd tier where they became the only former European Cup/CL winner to play in the 3rd tier of their national league system. They did however return to the 2nd tier of English football recently, where they currently reside.
Wigan Atheletic is another team that no-ones mentioned: non-league until 1978, but spent all of their early league time in the bottom two divisions. Brought by a very rich supporter in 1995, they were promoted from the 4th tier in 1997 and were in the Premiership by 2005.
Oxford Utd were in the 1st tier in 1988 and by 2005 had dropped to the 5th tier.
Players can move even more rapdily up and down the leagues than clubs. Tony Cottee played for a team in all of England’s top 4 divisions during the 2000-2001 season.
Btw I still play a computer game called Sensible World of Soccer that was released in 1996. Interestingly 3 of the teams that were in the 4th tier of English football in the game have played in the Premiership in the few seasons (Cardiff, Fulham and Wigan).
Some of the clubs mentioned were always going to struggle long term. Nottingham Forrest for instance were not really a major club for most of their history. Only through the brilliance of Clough and whatshisname did they temporarily become European and English Champs. Their descent has perhaps been greater than it should have been, but the descent was always going to happen(without a set of extraordinary circumstances).
Leeds are probably the great perennial underachievers. They really ought to be doing better. Wimbledon, Preston North End, Derby and Wolves have all fallen from grace big time.
In Scotland its Rangers, Queens Park and Third Lanark.