To which I say that the word itself does not offend me, but the balls on CBEscapee, to accuse me of racism while simultaneously denigrating my nationality, pissed me the hell off. He made it racist with his usage of it.
I was thinking the same thing. In the long run it hurts the group that’s able to get away with saying these things because they were/are opressed more than the group they’re directed at. As long as it continues and is forgiven that group will always be viewed in light of their opression.
I kinda think we could all work hard on being a little less offensive. (Sometimes it’s just too much fun, though.)
Tends to be disparaging in Mexico? I’d like to know how you came to that conclusion, Colibri.
It is used here much in the same way you describe it’s use in Panama. As an adjective as well as a noun. I don’t agree that it tends to be disparaging. Dismissive perhaps.
It’s the semantic-mincing two step! An easy dance to learn.
Being ‘dismissive’ of someone based only on their nationality is bigoted, no matter what word you use. “Oh, you wouldn’t understand that, you’re just a Mexican.”
Could you explain this? It seems to me you’re assigning qualitites to the term gringo that are negative - thus you may be dismissive of said people. That does seem to be racist to me - you’re saying all “this type of people” are not worthy of attention, which while it isn’t as bad as some racist terms, is still a negative term used against everyone in a particular ethnic group.
I don’t consider the word gringo to be inherently offensive. After reading the pit thread CBEscapee started about Clothahump, there no question in my mind that CBEscapee’s primary purpose throughout the thread was to offend.
I happen to find that remark offensive. Now we’re both hypocrites.
By having it used to me in an offensive way by Mexicans during my travels there. I have not encountered it used in this way elsewhere in extensive travel and living elsewhere in Latin America.
Then it is definitely used differently than in Panama; it is, as I said, a simple descriptive with no pejorative connotation.
Are you really this stupid? Nobody accused you of those things, moron. The problem is that the words carry the baggage of their history. If you decide to use the terms, then you are intentionally invoking their history.
Slurs directed towards white people don’t have the historical baggage of these other terms. They can be used to insult. And you’re free to be insulted by them if you wish. Honky and cracker are meant to be insulting but they are not on the same level of offensiveness because they lack the historical associations with violence and oppression. Gringo is even less offensive because it’s usually not meant as an insult and has no history of being used in conjunction with violence or oppression.
I have red hair. When I was a kid people would call me carrot-top or Woody Woodpecker to try to insult me. Obviously the words were meant as an insult; but they aren’t hate speech. Once I got over about 7 or 8 I learned to not let taunting about my hair bother me.
Be a big boy and shrug it off, honky.
Homebrew,
You don’t seem to grasp that there is a difference between being insulted by a word and simply realizing that somebody is attempting to insult you with a word.
For example, my daughter is four. If one of her friends called me a poopy-head, I wouldn’t feel insulted. I would, on the other hand, know that the child was trying to be insulting. Likewise, on those occasions when I heard Mexicanos use the term “gringo” I wasn’t personally insulted or angered by the word, though it was clear to me that they didn’t mean it to be an emotionally neutral term at all.
No, I’m not. I’m engaging in the same type of ridiculous rhetoric that you are, where you try to justify why I should suck it up while everybody else in the world is permitted to be outraged. While I am being intentionally obtuse, you’re sincere in your beliefs that because of past historical injustices I am destined to be the world’s bitch, and I just have to take it because people who once resembled my physically were jerks.
I’m not buying. Not now, not ever.
Doesn’t matter.
Thank you kindly for your permission.
Small consolation to a kid who is taunted by people with those terms and does not have the historical perspective that you do. That person grows up thinking that he is being taunted because of his race. Imagine his surprise when he finds out that he has to take it because 40 years ago things weren’t fair.
Oh, it absolutely is, and is frequently used as such. What are we talking about? Oh, that’s right, the perjorative use of the term “gringo”. But no, it’s not insulting, even though it is.
So what?
I endured the same types of insults, and they’re not hate speech. However, if someone uses that red hair, infers that you’re Irish (I don’t know and don’t care if you are) and starts calling you a drunken Mick or something of the type, then it is indeed a form of hate speech. There is a clear distinction between insulting speech and hate speech, and you’re intentionally (or perhaps not) missing the distinction.
Whatever you say. Remember you said that in the future when it comes back to haunt you.
Yes I do. I acknowledge that the word Gringo can be used as an insult, although that is not it’s primary usage. I’m not even addressing whether it was being used as an insult in the threads where certain posters were insulted.
Not all insults are equal. And there are none directed at white people from minorities that rises to the level of nigger. The worst of them, like cracker and honky, are so powerless as to be almost comical when used. Sure the user may intend to insult you, and you can take insult at the intention. But they don’t have enough power to be offensive or hate speech. Hell, whites coined worse with redneck and trailer-trash.
My point is the whiney, woe-is-me, pitiful cry-baby attitude that says gringo, honky and cracker are hate speech and should be banned. Any white person who whines about it not being acceptable to call black people niggers and but they can call us honky is pathetic. Grow the fuck up and act like an adult. The world ain’t always fair and this tiny little inequity pales in comparison to the many, many other ways white people as a group in the United Sates have an advantage.
So, don’t address iniquity because things aren’t fair and there are worse problems?
Maybe it’s just a pipe dream, but I always thought that it’d be neat to have a world where everybody was treated as an individual and bigotry/racism, no matter who was wielding it against who, was absolutely shunned.
YMM(O)V
He was being racist and xenophobic. There is no doubt about that given the manner he used the word, especially in conjunction with his use of the term Redneck. Of course, he’s showed up in this thread to compound his lie.
For the record… if any of the mods told me that my nom-de-net was in any way offensive to anyone, I will change it. They have my email address for this purpose. I haved used by nickname for many years in many places including other websites. More importantly, it is a nickname used in real life… “Gringo”.
The reason I have appended the “_Miami” in the SDMB is because just plain Gringo was taken. Don’t know if the other Gringo is active tho.
I have given a LOT of thought to the OP’s question over years… not minutes. Is the term Gringo in and of itself offensive?
I have come to some conclusions on this very specific question.
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Any word --ANY WORD - can be found to be offensive by some people under some circumstances. Just think of the old cliche “God, motherhood and apple pie.” There are groups offended by each of those in certain contexts. This does not stop us from using words. In fact, proscribing a word entirely because someone somewhere may find it offensive is an absurd idea. Next we burn books.
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Whether you want to admit it or not - some words are offensive to more people in more cases than others. Calling someone a motherf*cker can be used as a term of endearment…but is usually used as a pejorative. My point is, you can not deny that such distinctions are relative. Words such as nigger and kike rise to ALMOST 100%, but even those are not 100% offensive to all people all the time. Is my using them in this discussion offensive??
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It has been said before, and I will repeat… CONTEXT is everything. Words are meaningless without context. Words are an attempt at communication. Communication involves words, actions, body language, etc, etc, etc. There are no absolutes.
Someone much smarter than me once said “you can’t please all of the people all of the time.” My adaption for this thread is “you can’t live your life without pissing someone off once in a while.”
Exactly. If someone said to me, “Hey Gringo, let’s go get some lunch,” I wouldn’t be offended. But if someone said to me, “You’re just an ignorant, hypocritical gringo,” I might be. Context, indeed, is everything.
But, would you extend this to other racial slurs? Does context matter then?
So, in the thread that spawned this thread, what was the context? Was it intended to give insult? Was it an attempt to insult Americans for being Americans? Or as the back pedaling (thanks contrapuntal!) in this thread would have it, be “dismissive” of them simply because they were Americans?
Some of them, yes. See my previous example about “black folks”.