I searched around and found a discussion about handling/quarantining mail but haven’t found any conversations about handling groceries.
I’m in Columbus, Ohio (capital city). We are at level three (of four) on the “advisory scale” which says there is “very high exposure and spread”.
We are dealing with our (selves and) groceries the same way today as we did in March. We have not gone into a store and have had everything delivered.
With gloves, on a table in the garage, we repackage anything that can be, unbox/bag anything that can be. Everything else in a package/container gets wiped down w CDC-approved disinfectant and goes into a reserved spot in freezer/fridge or thrown into a bin for several days. We don’t buy unpackaged fruit/veg (or fruit/veg that can’t be peeled or scrubbed). Everything gets re-rinsed when it comes out for consumption. In addition to washing hands, of course.
I’ve heard mixed info about whether, in light of new info about surface transmission, this is still considered highly necessary, but we are still working under the assumption that other shoppers (and/or our shopper) could have potentially coughed/sneezed the virus on any one of our purchases.
I’m not sure I’m ready to dial anything back at this point, but am open to reason.
What’s your grocery handling process (and local Covid severity)? Is it to the level described above, or do you take minimum precautions other than hand-washing after handling your purchases?
With all due respect, your grocery procedure is at a level that most, including experts, would view as nutty over the top.
The evidence that surface contacts are a reasonable concern is mostly at a theoretical level. It has not been observed in the wild as a serious or even low contagion risk.
The unfortunate thing is that at moments I kind of agree with you. But my fear of contracting this virus is off the charts, so it’s a real struggle for me. Maybe I need to hear from droves of reasonable, cautious people that they don’t do this.
Everyone I know who doesn’t do this (or a similar variation) is out in the wide world taking all kinds of risks, so my mind says “of course they aren’t doing this, so it’s not unreasonable that I am being extremely cautious in this area as well”.
My wife was in charge of covid response at her decent sized company - hundreds of employees. She wore mask and gloves through the first couple months grocery shopping, now just mask. She was always up to date on expert advice. We never quarantined or wiped down food.
I have read that surface contamination is not as big a deal as earlier thought, but I can’t get the grocery store handling thing out of my head as being a different thing than, say, mail. In my mind, exposure to multiple people is much higher for a tomato than a bill.
But like I said, I am open to other views.
How bad is the spread of virus where you live, may I ask?
The virus can survive on surfaces for only a limited time: In a study it could be detected on copper surfaces for up to four hours, on cardboard for up to 24 hours, and on plastic and stainless steel for at least 72 hours. Source
So you could leave groceries that don’t need refrigerating on the side for three days before bringing them into your kitchen.
I understand that the understanding has evolved, and the bigger threat is airborne particles, but it falls under the “why take a chance” category for me.
I still get my groceries delivered (and may never go back, honestly), and I wipe down all packages with disinfectant wipes before putting them away. I don’t take them out of their original packaging, or segregate them for a period of time, though. I do wash my hands after opening boxes or packaging.
Even the experts aren’t really sure how great the risk is:
Despite consistent evidence as to SARS-CoV-2 contamination of surfaces and the survival of the virus on certain surfaces, there are no specific reports which have directly demonstrated fomite transmission. People who come into contact with potentially infectious surfaces often also have close contact with the infectious person, making the distinction between respiratory droplet and fomite transmission difficult to discern. However, fomite transmission is considered a likely mode of transmission for SARS-CoV-2, given consistent findings about environmental contamination in the vicinity of infected cases and the fact that other coronaviruses and respiratory viruses can transmit this way.
“It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes,” the CDC website says now. “This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about this virus.”
I live in Los Angeles, where there are a high number of cases. I’m being more cautious than some, less cautious than you. I’m pretty much just following the rules-- wearing a mask, washing my hands, keeping my distance–without doing everything possible to avoid leaving the house. I didn’t go out and get a haircut or dine in at any restaurants and bars during the time that was allowed recently, as I felt it unwise, but I have gone scuba diving with a few regular buddies (keeping our distance) and I’ve visited my parents for some backyard picnics (sitting 15+ feet apart.) I have never taken the steps you describe with my groceries.
I think you’re probably overdoing it, but if it makes you feel better, that might be reason enough. It probably isn’t hurting anything.
Yeah, this seems like reasonable advice. To the OP: If the virus really did spread that way, even part of the time, don’t you imagine the entire world would be just covered in the thing eventually, if not already, making resistance pretty much futile?
I think if you are high risk, with a high probability of serious consequences if you contract the disease, then exercising great caution is perfectly reasonable. It may mean only another six months of inconvenience until we have a vaccine.
The question I’d look at, though, is what measures are most significant to reduce your risk. The evidence is that close proximity to other people (even if masked) is a much greater risk than surface transmission. So going to the grocery store is probably the major concern. If I were in a high risk situation, I’d focus most of my efforts on avoiding human contact until we have a vaccine.
I admit I consider this regularly, but then the fearful voice says “people only have to be [significantly] exposed one time to get sick”- maybe they just haven’t gotten “lucky” yet.
I wish I felt more confident about the idea of being lower-risk. I just turned 50, I’m in fairly good shape, healthy weight (although I’ve gained the ‘pandemic 10’), I exercise (indoors at home lol), I don’t smoke, I have healthy low blood pressure, but three years ago I was very heavy, out of shape, and was exhibiting a pre-diabetic sensitivity to sugars. So am I at increased risk or aren’t I? My boyfriend, who I live with, is in less good shape than me so I worry about him, too. It feels borderline, so I can’t shake the worry.
Back the first week of March I watched a coughing woman paw through containers of strawberries. I rinse my fruit. I wash my hands after getting the mail, and wipe off doorknobs when someone other than me touches them. Otherwise I don’t do anything differently with purchases and packages because there’s little evidence of surface transmission.
I have asthma and I think what you’re doing is way over the top unless someone in your home has cancer or very serious immune disorders.
Everything that comes into our house gets quarantined for 24 hours, whether it’s mail or food. If it’s food it’s in its usual storage spot, the refrigerator, the shelf, whatever. That seems to be enough, though I live in a very low spread environment now in Massachusetts.
Looking at your procedures, how much of an imposition is it to do that work? If it’s not a major hassle, & if it makes you feel comfortable, I would say that it’s not hurting and you can keep doing it. Part of COVID mitigation is reducing stress…
I’m careful. I am able to work from home. I don’t leave my apartment without a KN95 mask. I carry hand sanitizer with me, and I use it if I touch anything at all.
When I enter my apartment after being outside, I remove my shoes. I wash my hands. I wipe down my keys and the doorknobs.
I do my own grocery shopping. Partly because delivery is more expensive, partly because I am reluctant to ask others to take risks I won’t take for myself.
When I return, I wash my hands, etc. Then I wipe everything in the grocery bag with disinfectant wipes, except, obviously, fresh fruit and vegetables. Can’t really wipe them with a Clorox wipe. But they get rinsed. Vegetables are, as a rule, getting steamed or grilled or something – that should help. Fruit, well, it’s getting eaten. But I haven’t read that the virus is food-borne.
The grocery bags themselves (I have some reusable ones made out of, I think, recycled plastic bottles) go in the washing machine.
That’s it, that’s my routine. So far, so good.
I wouldn’t go to the lengths you (xanthous) do, but I get why you’re doing it.
Since mid-March … I can count the number of times I’ve heard someone coughing or sneezing in a grocery store on one hand. And I typically go twice a week. This is in suburban New Orleans, FWIW.
Also FWIW: I don’t know if this is super-common across the U.S. … but being out in public with obvious cold or allergy symptoms is simply not being done around here. There is presumably considerable unspoken social pressure against doing so … and social pressure against “public illness” seems to be largely unrelated to any individual sentiments about masking. I don’t have hard evidence but I happen to believe that the same person who thinks “masks are for suckers!” would probably not dare go to the grocery if suffering, say, from a bad cough.
I think a lot about viral load/duration, and use that to guide me. So when I do take risks, I try to limit duration, exposure as much as possible. So, for example, I would worry about surfaces a lot more in an office, when the same people may have touched many of the surfaces I come in contact with. Its a community. I worry less about groceries because it seems unlikely that any one item has enough viral load to be a problem. So I take no special precautions once they are in my house.
In the same way, we are doing pick up for 90% of our groceries, but if I need 1or 2 things, I will go in. However, I go straight to what I need, get them, go check out. I don’t linger. Probably happens twice a week?
I don’t think this is the right way to look at it. When someone is delivering (or bringing to the curb) groceries to 100 people in a shift, the only way for infection to spread is if the delivery person is infected - of the possible 10,100 interactions among 100 customers and 1 employee only 100 of them actually take place. When 100 people go to a grocery store together and check out with that same employee at the register, the infection will spread if any one of them is infected - all 10,100 interactions take place. Going to delivery immediately reduces the risk of transmission by over 99% assuming everyone has the same chance of being a carrier at a given moment.
It’s actually even MORE effective than that, because someone is mandating that the employee follow safety procedures, refusing to allow him to work if he’s sick, and so on, whereas nobody is actually able to do that for every customer, and because the average grocery employee likely serves more than 100 people in a single shift, though 100 is a good estimate of how many will be sharing space in the store at any one time.
Remember, the virus does not care about whether you have a legitimate purpose for going into a public place with a bunch of other people. If you wouldn’t go to a bar, a theater, or a baseball game right now then you should not go to a grocery store.
Staying out of stores and using pickup/delivery is one of the most effective things everybody can do to reduce global risk in what is effectively a huge system of trying to drive probabilities down. Most places will let you do curbside pickup for free if you don’t want to pay the delivery surcharge - please look into it.
I was thinking of the Instacart people, who actually go into stores and pick out your groceries for you. They’re doing exactly what you’d do if you went grocery shopping. So that person is taking the same risk I’d be taking.
That said, I see what you’re saying, of course. I just don’t think it’s working exactly like that around here.
And as to employers mandating safety procedures or refusing to allow a sick person to work, the world would be a better place if that were actually happening, for sure.
Anyway, in this neighborhood, the grocery stores aren’t doing curbside pickup. Or delivery. My local grocery store doesn’t even assemble orders for DoorDash or other services. It’s Instacart shoppers or nothing.
It’s Instacart (or some other similar service), or you can sign up with Fresh Direct or something similar.
I’m the same age as you, but with some co-morbidities that put me at higher risk.
We’re not embargoing anything or wearing gloves when shopping, but hand washing after returning from the store or handling mail, packages, groceries etc. is standard. Masks are either washed after use in a more crowded area or set aside for 3-4 days before wearing.