As I was watching Predator the other day, and I had particular question regarding the practicality of action movie battle tactics in regards to real life. In a scene we see repeated in most action movies from the 80’s, a square-jawed commando carries a minigun into a standing firefight and unleashes havoc on a bunch of brown people. I was wondering - is there any role in the modern military that actually has ground soldiers carrying around ridiculously large weapons like this? I know miniguns are mounted on aircraft like AC-130’s and on armored vehicles, but are there really any soldiers out on the battlefield lugging around 20mm gatling guns?
It’s not 20mm.
The minigun shown is a 5.56mm weapon.
In real life the weight of the gun, batteries and ammo would be impossible for one man to carry.
Not to mention the recoil forces. :eek:
The recoil force from firing a 5.56mm projectile isn’t that high, even with a lot of powder behind it. The fact that it’s a continuous-fire weapon just means that the force is sustained rather than just being one single kick.
But you’re right, the rate of fire (several thousand rounds per minute) is such that it would not be feasible for one man to carry enough rounds (while also carrying the weapon) to be useful. In “Predator,” after Jesse Ventura’s character is killed, Bill Duke’s character picks up the weapon and fires continuously for a good 15 seconds or so. That’s 1000-1500 rounds of ammo. And this is after having fired for a previous cumulative 15 seconds or so during the attack on the guerilla compound.
Yeah, my bad. 20mm weapons are the ones mounted on fighter jets. :smack:
The gun I meant to reference is the actual “mini” 5.56mm version.
This page estimates recoil forces at 240 lbs.
Not if he’s a goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus!
Javelin anti-tank missile doesn’t seem too fun to lug around, but if you need to take down a tank or structure, it seems to be the way to go.
I suppose I’m just wondering if there is a kernel of truth to the cinematic/video game cliche of the “heavy weapons guy.”
Sure. Mortar teams. Bazooka (or modern equivalents) teams. Machinegun teams. The problem with heavy weapons is that not only are they heavy, but their ammo is too. So you end up with a couple guys to handle the weapon and its acoutrements and everybody else in the platoon carrying some spare ammo for it.
There’s the SAW. Does that count? They’re routinely carried by squad members in the US Army and Belgian Army.
ETA: Scumpup is right. They’re usually a team weapon. The SAW, when in use, is a two-man job. I mean, you can just do it by yourself but it’s not recommended.
Patently absurd.
There’s a the guy/team who’s struck carrying the medium MG or the recoilless rifle/rocket launcher. The mortar team must also have a heavy load to carry.
A medium MG (e.g.: M-240, M-60) will typically be carried by 2 people. An M-240 weighs 25 pounds. The spare barrel and cleaning kit must add about 10 pounds.
A 7.62 NATO round weighs about 400 grains. The links weigh something like 40 grains. Infantrymen will better be able to say how many rounds are typically carried, but if we say 500 rounds, that means 30 pounds.
So an M-240 with 500 rounds will weigh about 60 pounds for two people. That’s on top of whatever else they’re carrying.
MG rounds can be carried by the whole squad or platoon or you can have teams of 3-5 people allocated to 1 MG. You might even have one poor guy who’s expected to operate and carry a medium MG+ammo all himself but, outside training, that’s either due to a personnel shortage or bad decisions.
Usually, it’s at least two people. The stuff is heavy. It’s also very important to keep it working during a fight and MGs attract fire. Having 2 people allocated to it means fire output will quickly be resumed if one servant gets taken out.
In short, the MG guy from Hollywood is just there to look cool and has few if any real life counterpart.
Back in the day, I’d carry a MAG (M-240), 500 rounds and a spare barrel all by my lonesome (my number 2 would carry another 250 rounds, in addition to his regular infantry gear). I was probably as close to the “heavy weapons guy” as you’re likely to get, especially when I was used in an assault role.
A little nitpick: the weapon in Predator was a 7.62mm minigun, not a 5.56mm. And indeed, according to that site, only carried 4 seconds worth of ammo in the backpack, no power supply, and was firing blanks.
They actually made a man-portable 5.56 “Microgun,” though it didn’t enter mass production. And the system would still have weighed 80 lbs altogether, and needed a two-man crew, as with the SAWs above.
Now you know…
That is the instantaneous peak recoil force, which assumes that the gun is rigidly mounted. This lasts for only a brief period during each firing event. With a 2’ barrel and a muzzle exit velocity of 2850 ft/sec, the recoil force only lasts 0.0014 seconds. At 4000 rounds per minute, that’s one recoil event per 0.015 seconds; the time-averaged recoil force an operator would need to contend with would be more like 23 pounds.
What would it typically be firing a 15 pound m-249, firing 15 5.56 rounds a second?
Off-topic but related: a minor but welcome aspect of the recent HBO miniseries “The Pacific” is how it focused on two Marines (Bob Leckie and Eugene Sledge) who were both heavy weapons guys, i.e. a machine gunner and a mortarman. You got to appreciate that not every guy was a rifleman, and the heavy weapons guys had to fight as teams (setting up, aiming, carrying ammo, etc.).
Is the M240 used by the IDF or were you not in Eretz Yisrael at that time? Thanks!
Here’s a YouTube representation of not stopping the fun.
