Very good point, Liberal. If we allow the gov’t to decide that *this one * is not protected free speech, what’s to stop them from deciding that next time, *that one * is not either?
I think with the Bill of Rights it’s an all or nothing proposition. Either everyone is protected, or no one is. You can’t start splitting hairs on which person is protected and which isn’t.
Precisely why, as much as it disgusts me*, I must agree with you and WhyNot. This is one case where the slippery slope argument I believe is valid.
On preview: Indeed, redtail23 – Why was it okay for the haters to protest at gays’ funerals but not at veterans’?
*Noting personal! Disgust at defending Phelpses, not agreeing with any particular Dopers! 
The group was formed to help out at soldier’s funerals. Why do they need to have a broader mission? You think they aren’t doing enough? Form your own group.
ETA I think the law is a bad idea. I can think of nothing worse than giving the WBC a forum in the appelate courts. They will fight this up the Supreme Court if they have to.
Did I say they weren’t doing enough?
ETA I don’t think they have to do anything. I just wonder if they would go to any trouble for just anither dead faggot. It’s a valid question. These groups are getting a lot of glory and attention for themselves at no real risk. Fine by me, but I think I would have been more impressed if they’d shown up a little earlier.
Not exactly but it looked like it was implied.
How else do we stop this particular type of protesting? Should we simply grin and bear it? Let the Harley Veterans do their thing and stay out of it?
Please let me know how this CT law is going to open pandoras box for the future of free speech? BTW, I’m not being snarky, I’m asking for opinions on this.
Nope. Not intentionally. They have no obligation to do anything at all, but only protecting veterans is kind of easy, don’t you think?
If you look into the history of the WBC you will see that every member of the family that can get through college becomes a lawyer. They love sueing and bringing their views into court any chance they can get. This law will just give them another forum, possibly in front of SCOTUS. IMHO there is not much more you can do without putting limits on the 1st Amendment.
I don’t think it is easy at all. A lot of them are veterans. They are protecting their own. It’s only natural. And remember WBC was not getting the press they do now back when they were just protesting funerals of gay men. They started small and spread like a fungus. Most people never heard of them until recently.
It’s not that don’t do enough. They are certainly to be commended for standing up to the Phelpses.
I still think that ‘Would they protest the Phelps cult at events other than soldiers funerals?’ is a valid one though. If the answer is no, they are only interested in honoring fallen soldiers I have no problem with that. But the question is still valid.
The media and the political right and these bikers never cared when it was just dead faggots. Now they’re all outraged. I’m unimpressed. “Protecting” veterans is cheap, easy way to get publicity and slaps on the backs.
Anyway, my question for Nic was serious, I am interested to know how much these guys really care about the gay bashing or is it just about getting the cheap applause from the flag waving.
I support the law, and would broaden it to include other funerals. What is more, it looks constitutional on the face of it.
The right to assemble and the right to speak are at all times regulated, and these regulations are tolerated by our courts if they do not place an undue burden on a group or person getting its message out. This isn’t an undue burden - it is a time and place restriction. It isn’t terribly onerous. Abide by it and any group may protest as it sees fit.
In Frisby v. Schultz, the Court clearly noted that an ordinance barring picketing in front of a person’s home was constitutional, as that ordinance only banned that form of protest and left other forms of communication open. Thus were the societal needs of privacy and peaceable assembly balanced.
They should be similarly balanced here.
They got plenty of press when they protested the funerals of Matthew Shepherd and Randy Shilts, among others. Front page headlines, nightly news, the works. It’s not like the Phelps clan was a total unknown until they started going after veterans: they’ve been getting media attention with these antics for years now. 'Course, as long as they were just harrassing fags, they didn’t get any legislative attention, which makes some of us a little cynical about all the people coming out of the woodwork to slap him down now that he’s targeting a more palatable brand of corpse.
Find your allies where and when you can.
The answer is no. And they are not an anti-Phelps group although that is where the need came from. If you didn’t click on the link:
Yes you are. Form your own group if you think they aren’t doing enough. Maybe you could have protected Falwell’s funeral.
What, you mean after he’s stopped attacking us, and has started attacking someone else entirely?
Yeah, great allies. Thanks heaps, guys.
Nope. I don’t think they have to do ANYTHING. You’ve got the wrong take on my posts here. I just don’t think it’s all that heroic to stand up for such an easy cause. Standing up for veterans is roughly equivalent to standing up for “the children.”
They don’t have to do a damn thing as far as I’m concerned but that doesn’t mean I have to think they’re doing anything impressive or important or courageous either.
You know that is not quite true. Their infamy has been building. They were not overnight sensations. They are very good at manipulating the press and have built up their brand recognition through years of work.
Part of what made them more famous is the WTF factor. It is what got them more press. An anti-gay group protesting at a gay man’s funeral is disgusting but not surprising. On the nightly news it would earn a headshake and a couple of clucks from the average viewer. When you hear that an anti-gay group is protesting some Marine PFC’s funeral the average viewer perks up and goes “What the Fuck?” and listens more intently. WTF does that funeral have to do with homosexuals? Are they protesting the war? The government? The Marine Corps? The viewer become intrigued and disgusted at the same time. A masterful manipulation of the media by Phelps and everyone is playing along. I wish we could ignore him and he would go away but I think he is crazy enough that he would keep doing it.
The First Amendment, if it protects anything, must protect offensive and obnoxious speech, regardless of who might be offended. Any law seeking to restrict the Westboro group amounts to nothing more than a content-based restriction on protected speech (indeed, I see it as political speech and thus worthy of the highest degree of protection) and, thus, in my view must be declared unconstitutional. If people want to be free of such protests then they have the option to holding the funeral in a place not accessible to the public.
They are not standing up for the veterans. They are shielding the families dead soldiers from vultures like Phelps at their funerals. It is not a symbolic gesture, it is a physical act. It may not be courageous but unfortunately it is necessary and important.