Gulf War syndrome

Kricket, I am 100% with you. My mother has fibromyalgia and my stepmother has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. These are not “hysteria” or “after” anything. It was a tremendous relief to both ladies, both of them normal, sane, non-hysterical people, to finally be able to put a name to what was wrong with them.

Until the early part of the 20th century, there was no such thing as “Alzheimer’s”. Old people just got senile and that was all there was to it. http://www.alzheimers.com/health_library/basics/basics_06_history.html

Before the 1980s, there was no such thing as Toxic Shock Syndrome.
http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/health-info/womenhlt/tox-shoc.html
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol1no3/stevens.htm

Like DavidB said, it doesn’t matter whether the person has a psychological problem or a physical problem–there’s still something wrong that needs to be fixed.

Here are some pages of Web links for Gulf War Syndrome.

http://www.healthlinkusa.com/Gulf_War_Syndrome.htm
http://dir.yahoo.com/Health/Diseases_and_Conditions/Gulf_War_Syndrome/
http://www.gulfweb.org/doc_show.cfm?ID=459

Duck, two things. First, ‘hysteria’ does not mean one is acting ‘hysterical’ or hyperemotive or irrationally. True, the word should be discarded (both for etymological and sociolinguistical reasons), but we’re stuck with it.

If someone is suffering from hysteria, they are not “after” anything. They don’t have to be ‘crazy’ or ‘irrational’. They are simply (ha!) manifesting symptoms which don’t have a physical cause, due to some unknown societal pressure. Saying someone is suffering from hysteria should not be considered a slur or a comment on their mental health (unfortunately, the former and latter are often the same).

And T.S.S. didn’t exist mainly because we didn’t have hyperabsorbant tampons which dessicated vaginal tissue, which were meant to be kept in for long periods of time, and which as a result became breeding grounds for bacteria.

Diseases really can appear out of the blue, whether for physical, microbial, or psychological reasons.
jb

Here are some other sites on related issues:

Gulf War Syndrome

Index to “Fad” Diagnoses

Be Wary of “Fad” Diagnoses

Exactly. :slight_smile:

I remember the early days of the Toxic Shock Syndrome thing, being a tampon user. There was a sizeable portion of “oh, come on!” skepticism in the media. Some feminists initially dismissed it as a patently false Dead White European Male conspiracy to pick on girls because they had to bleed every month.

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9903/01/gulf.syndrome.01/

http://www.hhs.gov/progorg/asl/testify/t000202a.html

From David’s “Index to Fad Diagnoses” link: All Stephen Barrett, M.D.'s list is, is syndromes that, at the moment, are “Not Scientifically Defined or Recognized”.

The other diseases in Dr. Barrett’s “Index to Fad Diseases” are:
Candidiasis hypersensitivity
Cavitational osteopathosis: Also called neuralgia-inducing cavitational osteonecrosis
Electrical hypersensitivity
Gulf War syndrome
Leaky gut syndrome
Mercury-amalgam toxicity
Multiple chemical sensitivity
Sick building syndrome
Wilson’s Syndrome

AFAIK, none of these is getting anywhere near the media attention, not to mention the research funding, that Gulf War Syndrome is. The only one I’ve even heard of is “sick building syndrome”. I don’t know who Dr. Stephen Barrett is, but I do know who the Centers for Disease Control is (are?) And if the CDC says, of Gulf War Syndrome, “there’s something there, but we don’t know what it is,” then that’s good enough for me.

And yes, I do understand that a large portion of the Gummint’s unease regarding GWS probably has to do with “assessing and predicting the health impact of military deployments”. Gotta love the Pentagon! :rolleyes: If “sick building syndrome” were affecting the deployment of American G.I.s, I know, it’d make your head spin, how fast the research money would come pouring out of the pipeline.

But–there aren’t thousands and thousands of people insisting that they are, too, sick with “sick building syndrome”. And sufferers from “sick building syndrome” haven’t been making speeches, and appearing on Good Morning America, and stumping their elected representatives, for nearly 10 years now. I don’t think you can just write all that off as fashionable “Disease of the Month” media attention.

I know we’re not supposed to keep our minds so open that things fall out, but can’t we keep just an attic window open maybe? Do you think Kricket doesn’t know when there’s something wrong with her husband?

When you get sick or injure yourself, how do you like it when people tell you, “It’s all in your head”?

It’s taken them 30 years to figure out that vitamins are important in pregnancy, and it’s taken them 15 years to figure out just the spina bifida/folic acid connection.

Overview of spina bifida and folic acid.

The CDC report on spina bifida and folic acid.

Ten years for Gulf War Syndrome? Pfui, ten years is nothing.

Duck, you did a good job researching and gave a good analysis. The government, in my view, cannot be accused in stonewalling anything, they genuinely try to do something in this case. M$ for many years could not straighten (simple) SW issues; human body is more complex. TSS was a good example, although, strange as it was, it looked like a real disease from the beginning (at least, to me).
I wish we dealt with problems as they are, without the hordes of greedy lawyers.

Peace

Look. You go off to the gulf war. Later you get sick. But does that mean that one caused the other.

I don’t see how you can accuse the gov’t of “stonewalling”. They investigated, others investigated. No one can explain “Gulf War Syndrome”, or even be sure it exists. How can you expect doctors to treat a disease that may or may not exist and has no known cause or cure?

GWS seems to me to be related to Multiple Chemical Sensitivity. People with MCS get sick in response to “chemicals”…or do they? If you expose sufferers to doses of chemicals they claim make them sick, they don’t get sick. They do get sick when they know they have been exposed to the chemicals. I’m not saying that people with MCS aren’t really sick, they are. But their problem has nothing to do with chemicals, it seems more like obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Humans are pattern seeking creatures. This often works well, and we discover a hidden cause of events. But we sometimes discover patterns where none exists. So we see faces in clouds, or believe in astrology, or “luck”. And sometimes we believe in diseases that don’t exist. There are two types of errors here. One is not believing that a disease exists, when it really does exist. The other is believing in a disease when it does not exist. And a simple reading of medical literature reveals thousands of proposed diseases that did not, in fact, turn out to exist. And the so-called treatment of these non-existant diseases caused very real harm. The fact that people didn’t believe in Toxic Shock Syndrome is interesting, but so is the fact that they believed in migrating wombs.

So it is not enough to say, “I am sick, I think this is the cause.” That is a starting point. But all the doctors investigating GWS can’t find a common element, they can’t find anything that all GWS sufferers were exposed to that all non-GWS people weren’t. We can’t say, “My husband is sick, there must be a cause.” We don’t know that. Maybe GWS is a real disease, but we are very far from deciding that, let alone explaining the course of the disease, let alone finding a cause, let alone finding treatment, let alone finding a cure.

It is possible that some people became sick after being exposed to something in the gulf, others became sick after they returned from the gulf for other reasons, others are suffering from psychiatric problems, and others are not really sick. Or any combination of any of these explanations. Which one of these is the “real” gulf war syndrome?

In the case of AIDS, it was decided that HIV was “real” AIDS. But, we know that some people with HIV don’t get sick, while other people who are not HIV positive have compromised immune systems. But most HIV+ people develop AIDS, while very few HIV- people do. So, we say that the people who develop compromised immune systems for reasons other than HIV infection have something other than AIDS, even though they develop the same symptoms HIV/AIDS patients do. So, this is really somewhat of a semantic question…but it is also a way of organizing thought. If we say that AIDS is caused by HIV, then we know what to do…prevent HIV infection and treat HIV infection with anti-viral therapy.

So, if GWS is to be recognized as a “real” disease, we have to find a common cause. This is not to say that people who end up not having “GWS” weren’t really sick, but recognizing that they are sick with something else. Treating the wrong disease is not the answer. And it may turn out that no disease will ever be recognized as causing GWS. That doesn’t mean that people aren’t sick, just that what made them sick is different from what they thought.

Duck, nice research. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that Gulf War Syndrome may not turn out to have a chemical or biological cause at some point. I’ve received two of the White House reports on Gulf War Syndrome, for a paper I did on that topic. My original thesis had been “There is no Gulf War Syndrome”, and that there was nothing statistically significant to symptoms. 3/4 of the way through the paper, I changed my mind and had to redo my outlines and resample my citiations.

It’s just at this point, the aforementioned thesis and antithesis clashed, and out has popped the synthesis (yeah yeah, Hegel). There’s something there, without a doubt. I just now doubt if it’s not ‘simply’ psychological.

Look at it this way (bad example of how GWS may occur, but good example of way contagious mental diseases may spread):

Social anxiety disorder is now big in the media. There are commercials for drugs to treat it, medical reports on local newscasts, etc. It’s possible that incidence of the disease may rise. How? One possible mechanism is the mass attention paid to the disorder. The symptoms are listed in Readers Digest and McCalls. As a result, awareness is up. People look for symptoms in themselves (just as they would for cancer or heart attacks)- it stays in the back of their mind.

This may make it more likely for some individuals to go from brief moments of panic, which many get intermittently (I’ve had a bunch myself), to a full fledged panic attack. Why? Because they are thinking about a panic attack while already panicked, and the psychic stress builds. It’s a chain reaction.

I’d wager that a certain percentage of the population (much higher than those who actually manifest) could manifest SAD. Just as there are many people who may develop depression. All you need is a stressor. Attention paid could trigger a disease.

It’s still a real disease, just as heart disease or cancer. The main difference is that the heart or the cells don’t respond to mental changes the way the brain can (duh- it’s a stupid sentence, but I can’t rewrite it right).

And it may be false too. It’s very well possible that most diseases are utterly dependent on mental state (stress disposing the body to higher rates of cancerous cells, or infection). There’s a lot of preliminary research already out that points strongly in that direction.

jb

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t it take an awful long time for the government to discover that guys were sick from exposure to Agent Orange?

Needs2know

My husband doesn’t remember where he puts things, he doesn’t remember conversations. Forgetfulness or memory loss. You guys are good with this. Define both. Seriously I am asking if there is a difference. Or what the difference is.
And his sleeping all the time isn’t a due to depression. We have already seen a psycologist on an unrelated topic.

All I am saying is that something is up. He was told not to donate blood because he was a GW vet. All the test I went through when I was pregnant because he was a vet.
We weren’t together at the time that he was in, so I don’t know what he went through, but wouldn’t one reason why some are saying they are sick and some aren’t is because they had different a mos. Some were close to the ammo dumps and some weren’t.
Like I said, he is a typical man and won’t talk about it. Nothing is wrong.
And if it was the shots they were given that could be due to different tolerance levels?

I went to school with a girl and her father came in contact with agent orange. Every child in the family had some form of birth defect, and now there childrens birth defects are worse than theirs. But that is off the topic.

I think it was less a matter of the government discovering it than of the government admitting it. Either way, it took time.

The difference between Agent Orange and GWS is kind of obvious. On one hand, we knew what the chemical causative was, and therefore could easily study the symptoms. On the other, we have a large listing of symptoms with a number of putative causes.

jb

Duck Duck Goose said:

The problem is that nobody is arguing against the statement that “there’s something there.” However, that “something” may very well be psychological, not physiological, in nature.

Incidentally, since somebody brought up Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, here is a link to a summary of Barrett’s book on the topic, Chemical Sensitivity:
The Truth about Environmental Illness

Kricket, by no means I am an expert on AO, but if birth defects run in the second generation, if I get it correctly:and now there childrens birth defects are worse than theirs, I doubt that AO is the culprit. And what do you mean “worse”?

As far as your husband: memory loss (if you are sure that it is real; he is getting older, remember?) can be due to a thousand reasons. The difference between trivial forgetfulness and Alzheimer’s is in that joke. If you are seriously concerned, have him to see a psychiatrist or at least a psychologist. There are good tests, which will allow differentiating between memory problems. If he has sleep problems, I would suggest a psychiatrist (M.D.).