My LEO friends say that most people “talk their way” into getting arrested & convicted. (They consider this a good thing as it makes their job easier.) They say it’s rare when someone actually exercises their right to remain silent.
The OP is very likely a prohibited person. This prohibition is certainly supported by the left and implicitly supported by the right. You know when the NRA complains that we shouldn’t be passing new gun laws when we don’t enforce the old ones? They are talking about situations like the OP.
The OP could have been charged with at least two federal felonies each punishable by up to 10 years in prison: 1) possession of a firearm by a prohibited person, and 2) making a false statement on Form 4473: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download
The form asked if you had ever been convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence and you answered no. There are instructions there regarding what that means, and you also certified on the form that you read and understood the instructions.
All that being said, I think the prohibition is ridiculous and the BATFE (as is usual in my experience) took a reasonable method in enforcing the law without exposing you to additional penalties.
In addition, in recent years the FBI goes behind the crime of conviction and identifies the victim of the crime and decides for themselves if he/she was a family or household member of the convicted person.
For example, it used to be (somewhat) standard in domestic violence cases to plead to simple battery instead of domestic battery in order to preserve the defendant’s gun rights. No more. The FBI will get the original paperwork and see that the victim was a family or household member. This is likely why the OP wasn’t denied at the gun shop and was allowed to take the gun home after a few days.
IMHO, this is of very dubious constitutionality as if a defendant pleads guilty to simple battery there has been no admission nor any finding by a judge or jury of one of the essential elements of the crime of domestic battery: the familial relationship of the victim.
Maybe I’m being a gloomy pessimist here, but should this really be placed so definitively in the past tense just two days after the OP gave a confession and physical evidence to the agent?
Yes, but I was too rattled to rummage too deeply in my gun safe for the allen wrench I needed while he waited in the other room…
16 years ago, this is very much what happened.
I did.
Thank you attorney/agent/whomever. I am hangdog/Droopy/Goofy grateful. Your advice is very sound. And has a good sprinkle of legalese in there.
Well, nobody can say for sure, but based upon my past experience in this area (which may not be indicative of future results) if they were looking to prosecute, they would have showed up with a search warrant and an arrest warrant instead of a knock on the door and a somewhat friendly conversation.
As I alluded to, for as much as the BATFE gets the reputation as being jackbooted thugs by the NRA, in my experience they are the most level headed and fair law enforcement agency out there. They seem to have a keen sense of who they need to come down on like a ton of bricks because the person is dangerous and to give a chastisement for violators like the OP, knowing that he will abide by the law in the future.
I’m sorry to hear that, but you did get warning.
I hope for your sake it ends there, because if it doesn’t this part of the story is going to be the best part of it.
Oh!! The OP was warned about it, and apparently lied on a form about it?
Apparently they really only looked that deeply into it because of that “with child present” add-on to the charge, which I didn’t remember even being a part of it. The law is stupid because it fails to allow for any context whatsoever.
There is such a strong correlation between domestic abusers and gun violence that I find it difficult to get all teary eyed over one being denied a handgun. Even if I accept your OP as you not being the aggressor in the fight between you and your girlfriend, you were either found guilty of spousal abuse or plead guilty to it. If you were found guilty you have to be treated as guilty, there’s no ollly olly oxen free.
If you copped a plea to for the sake of expedience and economy, you admitted under oath to having committed the acts in the charge. The only conclusion I can make is that you’re either a domestic abuser or a perjurer. Denying either one of those a handgun causes me no distress. Either you have a violent streak and poor impulse control or you’re willing to lie under oath for the sake of expediency.
From my point of view that’s exactly how gun control is supposed to work, it should keep guns away from dangerous people.
You were arrested and charged with a crime and you don’t remember specifics of it? And it is you that is supposed to introduce context during court hearings and plea bargains. The law is what it is. You were told in the past you are a prohibited person and you lied on the form and possessed a firearm. There are a lot of screaming on these boards for new gun laws, there should be some outrage over what you did.
“Oh well, my bad” doesn’t cut it.
I am both a LEO and a gun dealership owner. You committed at least 2 serious crimes and deserve no sympathy.
Geez, OP. You admit in that thread that you were convicted of domestic violence yet you lied on a federal form. The law sucks, but it is the law. The law that doesn’t suck is the one about lying on federal forms.
I don’t encourage breaking the law, but if you are going to do so, don’t post about it online. It tends to make law enforcement and judges not give you the benefit of the doubt.
I hesitated to even post this, but I thought it would at least serve as an example of the fact that gun laws do in fact work, sometimes. Not the first two times. I never said what I did was right. And I wasn’t really looking for sympathy, but I thought that there would be some discussion at least.
I think just about any law would work if you, in essence, call up the FBI and tell them that you are currently breaking it. And further, you really did that twice before and it didn’t work.
It sounds like, and I really don’t mean this personally, that you deliberately broke the law and the enforcement agency decided to cut you a break ahead of time because they assumed that you did not do this willfully, but if they read these posts then their assessment might have been different. But they cut you a break and you are talking about how you feel “emasculated.” This has been the law since 1996 and if you were not aware of it in 2004, you were in 2012 when a poster here informed you of it. I’m not sure why you were surprised.
With that, I’ll quit beating you up. I’m not sure what it is you want to discuss. Yes, I think the permanent DV ban is far too harsh and from everything you have posted here, in my kingdom, I would not even consider you to be a person who should be prohibited from possessing firearms even if you did what you pled guilty to in 2004.
I would definitely look into getting it expunged if you can. I know that in my state, a DV conviction may not ever be expunged short of a pardon from the Governor. Sell 50 pounds of heroin? Eligible for expungement, but not a DV.
I would do it for other reasons as well. Anyone who sees that on a background check is not going to accept your story. No matter what you say, they will picture you in an undershirt, working on your 12th beer, cigarette butts all around, and close-fisted punching your wife until she required hospitalization because she overcooked the roast. People who have never been involved in the system don’t understand how easy it is for a bad relationship to catch all parties in the DV system, even if there really isn’t any violence.
Also some cartridge arms (made prior to 1898) but IT VARIES WIDELY BETWEEN STATES and some specifics of the conviction.
But again, it varies. A friend was convicted or perjury of all things and couldn’t even use flintlocks. Get an attorney and have them give you the best advice possible. Or consider archery and/or air weapons such as others have mentioned.
Seconded. Check out my state law:
So under federal law a prohibited person may be okay with black powder weapons and pre-1898 cartridge firearms, they would run afoul of state law.
Air guns might also qualify and if one wants to be creative, a bow and arrow might be considered an “explosion.” That’s probably pretty fanciful, but if a person can “explode” in anger, one could argue that an arrow explodes off of a bow.
I don’t think the state would interpret it that way, but never underestimate the creativity of a prosecutor if he/she is out to get you.
This is very, very fair (and also quite accurate, especially WRT my description of the way things went down that day, as well as me not being 100% honest).
The “emasculated” comment was in reference to the absurdity of me having purchased far more deadly weapons (.45 1911, AR-15) than that .22 and nary a peep, yet here’s this .22! Yes, I know, those can kill people still. I haven’t even owned a gun for 2 years since this one (that I also no longer own, LOL) so I really don’t know what I’m complaining about.
I suppose ultimately I just deeply resent that right being taken away from me because I slapped a drunken maniac that was attacking me and admitted it when asked by (small town, Barney Fife-esque) authorities. There’s a reason that in the divorce I got primary custody of the kids and kept 100% of all my assets, including our house.
Then why do you have a gun safe?
:dubious:
Because I’ve had it for years, and I had a lot of loose ammunition I kept for the prior two guns that I couldn’t do anything with. I keep other stuff in there I want to keep out of the hands of my sons (couple of knives, a gabapentin prescription…just in case).
My gun safe is very small. Like sits on my bedroom closet shelf small.
As a Prohibited Person you are not allowed to posses ammunition either.
I’d suggest disposing of it if you’ve not already done so.