No they don’t:Americans Want Stricter Gun Laws, Still Oppose Bans
Why, have they increased crimes and murders?
I don’t think gallup is going to be a good cite here:
Maybe find a more reliable pollster to bolster your argument than one of the worst ones out there.
This ain’t the fucking wild wild west. I’d feel much safer with fewer halfwits out there packing heat.
Luckily the homicide rate is at the lowest rate in 50 years and outside of a post World War II dip that may have been caused by the number of young men who died we are at a all time historically low homicide rate. And yes we should still try to get it down as low as possible.
Be glad this is not the wild west, the shootout at the OK corral was caused by “law enforcement” trying to enforce a gun ban 
Calling people names you shows what this is really about, support for gun control is more a product of culture conflict than a response to crime. One study said the facts only move people by about 25%.
Note: It tends to be pretty difficult to talk people over to your side when you resort to ad hominem attacks and name calling. It also tends to show you have nothing to offer in form of valid debate material.
I have no desire to “pack heat” but I realize that some people NEED to and the others who are “enthusiasts” have a pretty low risk vector. They tend to be a very law abiding and non-violent group and are much safer to hang around than the general population.
Yes. Their premise and conclusion, as well as the impression that they have evaluated the elements of their argument in any meaningful or thorough fashion.
The argument is that the benefits of firearm ownership, in particular preventing genocide, outweigh the risks. It sure as fuck matters what the likelihood of a genocide is.
That’s not accurate. 100% of gun crimes and gun accidents are caused by someone with a gun.
Seeing as the context of this was in relation to people who are concealed carry permit holders do you have a cite that they are responsible for 100% of gun crimes and accidents?
I am quite sure you are capable of using more than inductive hyperbole in a debate so why not try it.
Do you have a cite that people who NEED to pack heat and/or are enthusiasts are much safer than the general public or that they tend to be law abiding?
I’m not convinced you know what genocide is. But for sake of argument, let’s say in the US the likelihood currently 0, can you name some countries were it isn’t? Can you name a country where the likelihood of genocide is high?
For those that do know what genocide is, the availability of guns/weapons seems to result in civil war. Two interesting case studies for anyone interested are Syria and Libya, my opinion is that guns played a rather large roll in those conflicts. In Libya it was obvious that international forces were required to eventually tip the balance. But notice that in Syria the international community is still on the sidelines. Meanwhile the Syrian air force has had a incredibly difficult time, resulting a significant number of defections–that’s frequently what happens when the military is asked to kill its own citizens.
To really throw gas on the fire, look at the situation in Palestine. You’d think AK47s grew on trees despite Israel doing everything it can to lock down the Gaza Strip. Obviously the presence of guns plays a pretty significant role for the Palestinians despite Israel having every possible technological advantage. Again, in my opinion, guns are the only thing preventing either side from committing genocide.
You didn’t answer the question. Have CCW permits led to an increase in murder or crime?
Pew found much the same. After Newtown, Modest Change in Opinion about Gun Control | Pew Research Center
They OK?
What exactly makes you think I don’t know what genocide is?
But if you assume that the likelihood of genocide in the US is 0, then the benefit of private firearms ownership in the US for the purpose of fending off genocide is 0. Thank you for playing!
To be clear, I have expressed no opinion on private firearms ownership in other countries.
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And lets look at Texas, in 2011 they had 518,625 permit holders and 120 convictions for a conviction rate of 0.0231% of permit holders.
Of the disqualifying violent offences Texas with a population of 25,674,681 convicted 63,679 for the same crimes or a conviction rate of 0.248%.
Cite: warning PDF http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/Reports/ConvictionRatesReport2011.pdf
So yes…with very basic math a Texas permit holder is 10 times less likely to be convicted of those crimes as a random Texan.
And in Kansas Few crimes committed by concealed-carry permit holders in Kansas
That’s very general. Something you could have said without reading the article. Any specific facts or citations that are incorrect?
Of course likelihood of an event matters as does the magnitude of the consequences. So something with a 1/1000 chance of happening but can result in millions of deaths is still pretty meaningful. Agree or no?
I should note that around 7.5% of Texans above the age of 18 have a permit so that is a good number to look at when comparing the number of convictions among permit holders on my cite.
Based on everything you’ve said in this thread, for example:
You are making a connection between the risk of genocide, and the benefits of gun ownership. In this case, zero risk means zero benefit. So what happens we we make the risk of genocide to something non-zero, does the benefit also go up?
Yes you did, “Uh, yeah, I remember when we were expelled from Iraq.”
The chances of a national disaster occurring are regional so YMMV as to the safety of your Oreos. What is not regional is crime. Same goes for hunting. If you’re worried about accidentally shooting yourself or committing suicide then you probably out to turn in your drivers license.
The chances of a national disaster are regional?
Never gonna take our right to defend ourselves… I just sent yet another check off to the NRA…when the cops are a phone call & minutes away, my gun is right here in my pocket & ready to rock!!