Good point kenetic. [sarcasm]That must be why Japan has so few suicides, because without guns, suicide is sooo difficult.[/sarcasm]
Not what I said, but why would that matter? GUNSGUNSGUNS!!!1!!
Ahh you were making the point that suicide is oh so easy with guns, implying it’s really difficult without, right? Which might be a good point if countries that don’t have guns had less suicides and/or if every time guns are banned in one of them oppressed countries suicides by other means didn’t rise to compensate. But like you said, facts have no place with you gun grabbers.
Oh I didn’t realize you were talking about a $4 tax on guns. If it would shut you up, then I’d be OK with a $4 tax on guns.
How much does your alarm system cost? A cheap pistol with a trigger lock and a box of ammo costs well under $200.
And in the end name calling is the basis of your argument.
Many of them would. I thought you were discounting things that didn’t directly affect third parties. (I would guess that second hand smoke kills more people than accidental shootings but whatever).
Apparently not.
You probably want to step away and take a breath. Even the pit has rules of conduct, you ignorant piece of shit.
I don’t have a problem with poor people not smoking. Cigarrettes provide no benefit except perhaps making them look cool as teenagers in the 1980’s.
Yeah, but we don’t tax them as a method of keeping people from buying them. That’s what you are proposing, imposing prohibitive taxes so that most of the people who by guns will be hobbyists.
That’s because you have no empathy, you can’t figure out that some people are poor and can barely make ends meet so they live in shitty neighborhoods with lots of crime and need a way to protect themselves that don’t require feeding and caring for a dog or paying monthly fees to alarm companies.
Once again, you might want to take a look at the restricted language portion of the board.
And yes, your position on making guns expensive is telling poor people that they shouldn’t be able to protect themselves from intruders.
Didn’t you say you live in a $3 million home neighborhood? So you have cops telling you that they don’t respond to these things right away and you have the fact that even if they did, it would take over 5 minutes between alarm and police showing up at your door. The average response time is over 10 minutes and in places like detroit its almost an hour. Sure alarms have a place in securing your home but its not the alpha to omega of home security. I don’t really worry about it but if I was, Id also get a dog and a quick access gun safe. BUt if I was poor and could only afford a couple of hundred dollars, I get a gun.
And do they recommend that you do nothing more than that? And criminals do know how long it takes police to arrive. I don’t know if the majority of criminals are even deterred by alarms. If they have targetted my home because they know where my wife keeps her jewelry or where we keep cash in the house, then the alarm is just a speedbump.
What’s the downside to buying a cheap gun, cheap ammo & a cheap lock, btw?
Also, I have no idea about this - how much do gun permits / concealed carry permits etc. cost?
It depends on the gun, maybe less accurate, maybe less reliable, probably doesn’t cycle as smooth, probably less aesthetically pleasing. Cheap FMJ bullets will work just fine but wont’ mushroom on impact the way more expensive hollow points would, so generally you only buy a few of the expensive rounds and more of the cheap ones to practice. The locks aren’t cheap but a free and they need a key to open, which might not be as fast as having one of them new safety gun box things. Maybe you should actually visit a gun store and go shooting so you won’t be talking out of your ass so much.
Most places don’t have “gun” permits anymore. Concealed carry is free in Arizona and some other places, where CCW permits are still needed they cost probably $300 to 400, but you don’t need a CCW permit to guard your own home.
A new 9mm hi point is heavy & ugly but it costs less than $200 and is not noticably less accurate or reliable than guns that cost three times as much. I’ve never fired one but it probably the most frequently reviewed cheap gun (see youtube). If you spend $600 you can get a gun that feels better, fires smoother, weighs half as much and looks nicer.
Virginia charges $50 for a 5 year ccw permit (the cost is largely for the police background check). The cost of the training program can be anywhere from $25 to infinity. A good one probably costs ~$200.
Self defense ammo might cost $1 or $2 per round, range fodder is about $0.25/round. Self defense ammo might be hollowpoint or frangible or something like that. The target ammo is generally just a lead bullet and is perfectly serviceable as defense ammo.
My point is - I don’t see any appreciable difference in the cost of owning a cheap gun, cheap ammo, cheap lock/safe, permits, training etc, vs just getting good locks installed on doors/windows and exterior lighting, or vs getting a home alarm system. A home security system is almost certainly going to be less expensive if the gun alone costs $600 or more.
If the argument is ‘poor people can’t afford home security other than gunsgunsguns!!!’…your argument basically sucks.
And, as noted before…I’ve never heard of a home alarm system killing someone by accident.
According to Department of Justice statistics for 2011, of all firearms related crimes, only 2% resulted in homicide. That seems pretty hopeful to me. Hardly an epidemic.
In my state, MN, the vast majority of fatalities by firearms are suicides. Given that our medical system has still not devised a humane method of self-disposal, that also seems appropriate to me.
It’s matter of demographics. Determine which group is committing the majority of gun-related crime/homocide and deny them their gun rights until they are thirty. That would be young males.
Like we said you can get an adequate gun for less than $200, a box of ammo is $7-20, the lock is free.
You’re mom sucks.
Maybe you should try to get the democrats to tax all firearms then and see where that gets you.
A new hi point 9mm gun costs about $150
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ProductListing.aspx?brand=Hi-Point&catid=1715
A box of bullets costs about $6 for 20 rounds of the cheap stuff. Thats $156.
How much does it cost to get a reliable alarm system, get it installed, what is the monthly charge and how long are you locked in for?
Your.
But don’t worry - we all know intellect isn’t really one of your strong points, is it.
How about storage? Locks? Training? Any permits?
Home security doesn’t only mean signing a contract with a company, you know. ‘Kickstop’ reinforced door frames are $50-80 even with installation. Motion-sensor security floodlights? $15-20. You can pick up home security systems for under $100 if you install it yourself, especially wireless systems. This whole idea that home security is somehow ‘expensive’ and guns are the ‘cheaper’ alternative is just ridiculous.
In any event - somehow I don’t think you stand a chance by yourself when 3-4 guys decide to ransack your place because you had poorly lit exteriors and easy-access doors. I’ll continue making it very unlikely they even target my house, let alone actually get in. You go on masturbating with your gun there.
You can spend as much or little on storage as you like starting around $30. Locks come free with the gun, as you have been told a couple times now, but I guess intelligence isn’t one of your strong points.
Free or expensive.
You don’t need no permits.
YOU were talking about alarms though and response times for police. That requires signing a contract with a company. Tell us how much that is for the install and monthly fees.
I shoot USPSA, so I’d bet on me. I still have exterior lighting and deadbolt doors. Them damn glass windows though make most otherwise undefended homes “easy-access.”
So we’ve got a few people all pretending to laugh at the stupidity each claims to see in the others.
Not quite. Dragonash said that alarms are better than guns. Over time he has kept shifting the goal posts until he was basically saying that a “good” alarm system was better than a gun (plus good outisde lighting and deadbolts, etc.). Oh and lets not forge the part where he chides poor people for living in shitholes where crime is a problem.
I told him that a handgun and ammunition costs less than $200. He then reverts to crappy alarm systems that don’t alert the police or a security company so he can make a favorable price comparison. He is simply not willing to examine his assumption (which is especially dangerous when you are assuming the conclusion).
<And all the ‘you’re racist’ comments: Double fuck you. My position on guns has zero to do with my position on things like immigration, tax policy, or other areas that may or not affect low-income households. My doctorate work was in economics. I also grew up dirt poor - as in, we couldn’t even buy dirt. And I laugh at the prospect of my family, growing up, wasting money on a gun to ‘protect’ our meager possessions. The added risk of having a gun in the house vastly outweighed any ‘protection’ gained, and given the other protection options, I strongly suspect this is the case for richer families as well.>
I had to chuckle. We were also very poor, but we had to have guns in the house, so when we got too hungry, we could go to the woods and shoot something to eat.
House alarm systems…even if the police are slowish to respond, the crook will likely choose the house without an alarm. If everyone followed the advice to have an alarm, I suspect crooks wouldn’t be as apt to avoid them, just better at disabling them.
We are decently well off, and I am always amused by the fact that if a robber ransacked our house, he would starve before finding much other than food worth stealing. I noticed one item or set of items worth several thousand dollars the other day and know a robber would never suspect it. If they want grandma’s old silverplate, it is a pain to polish, so be my guest.
You might also describe us as dirt poor. our wealth is far more tied up in land than in expensive trinkets or art
Sure, an argument can be made either way, but I come down on the no guns side because folks who buy guns for protection are, if I believe all the cites on the subject, far more likely to be killed by a gun than those who don’t have one.
I know for sure, too, that I would never have a gun where other people could get their hands on it. Like Adam Lanza, for example.
The phrasing “Far more likely” may be a bit of an exaggeration.