In the movies you often see someone using a revolver. These people will often fire off many shots without pulling the hammer back on the gun. Yet in westerns the cowboys always have to pull it back in between shots. Is it possible to get a revolver that can be fired without having to pull the hammer back?
Secondly how big is the muzzle flash on a gun? I know it is different for different guns and ammo but on average how big will it be for different guns? Say a small pistol, a large pistol, a hunting rifle and a high powered sniper rifle?
Jockstrap
PS I don’t really know much about guns so please excuse me if these questions make no sense
I know on the new pistols most aresemi-automatic (one pull of the trigger = one shot, the trigger pulls back the trigger and fires) Old pistols were manual, pull back the hammer then pull the trigger to fire. I don;t know much about muzzle flash though.
There are two types of revolver: “Single Action”, and “Double Action”. A single-action revolver has to be cocked for every shot, because all the trigger does is release the firing pin. A double-action revolver has a cam mechanism that causes the barrel to be rotated as the hammer is drawn back, so the act of pulling the trigger cocks the gun.
In the old westerns you see, the most common weapon was the Colt .45 ‘Peacemaker’, which was a single-action revolver. That’s why the old west movie stars would shoot fast by fanning the hammer.
Most modern revolvers are double action. You can pull the hammer back to a locked position and fire, or you can pull the trigger and fire with out having to pull the hammer back first. If you pull the hammer back first, the trigger will move back towards the grip and you will not need to pull nearly as hard or far on the trigger. This will generally increase your accuracy. In addition, by pulling the hammer back you rotate the cylinder to put a fresh round in front of the barrel. This will also increase your accuracy.
I keep a double action revolver for defense in my home. It is not necessarily my first choice for a defensive weapon but what can I say it was a gift (lets not go there). Whenever I address the weapon to shot it I will pull the hammer back. This is the best posture that you can take with the weapon. If you are in a position that you can’t or don’t have time to pull the hammer back, you can simply pull the trigger. There are no safeties on revolvers. In some ways this makes it a safer weapon. Pick it up, pull the trigger, bang.
I agree - it will greatly increase your accuracy. My little hands can’t pull the trigger on my Super Redhawk without shaking the gun all around, and neither can Fierra’s. When we cock the hammer first, then fire, we both do pretty well firing it.
So this explains the scene in the movies…
Baddie: Tell us where the gold is.
[points his gun at goodie]
Goodie: Never!
[baddie cocks the gun to emphasise he means it. He now needs less pressure to pull the trigger and the goodie is in even more mortal danger. oh no]
Baddie: Then you die.
[Goodies’ seemingly dead brother bursts through the door and kills baddie.]
I always thought “why doesnt he just shoot him? He never had to pull that thing back before.” Mystery solved.
On muzzle flash, it’s such a wide range that it’s really hard to describe. It varies with ammunition type, manufacture, barrel length, muzzle devices, and other stuff.
Muzzle flash is practically irrelevant except in low light situations - where there’s more a risk of you blowing out your own night vision than any attacker locating you. That’s what “flash hiders” are designed for, on military rifles - not to hide the flash from people you’re shooting at, but to keep your night vision.
I personally use russian military surplus ammo, and that uses chemical flame retardant… and so there’s practically nothing. And on the other end of the spectrum, I’ve seen an m1919 machine gun with a 10" barrel create enough flame to light an auditorium.
Generally, muzzle flash occurs because there is still some powder burning when the residue (gun powder) gets blown out of the barrel. So if you have a long barrel (or long enough for the caliber you’re using), you’ll have pretty mild muzzle flash.
Military type rifles tend to have flash suppressors, hunting rifles tend to be long barreled, with little flash… pistols are a mixed bag, although they have a decent flash because of the short barrel.
In any case, it really varies by a lot of factors, so it’s hard to tell unless you need to know something specifically.
There are also triple action revolvers. The first two actions are the same as related above. The third and mostly secret action involves snapping the wrist whilst pulling the trigger. This makes the round exit the barrel much faster and will take out your duelling partner before he manages to shoot you.
I’m not a gun expert, but I’ve fired a few different .22’s, and a couple of shotguns, and I’ve never seen muzzle flash. At all. Course, I was firing during the day.
And if you hold the gun sideways, gangsta-style, it will make the bullet spin more and cause more damage to your target.
Muzzle blast depends on the calibre, the load of the cartidge, and the length of the barrel.
One thing that always bugs me in the movies is when they work the slide or bolt on a semi-automatic or automatic firearm. The intent is, “I’m cocking my weapon, so you can see that I’m ready to go.” But this usually happens when there should already have been a round in the chamber. The actor is just ejecting a perfectly good round.
FWIW, automatics (rifles, machine guns, submachine guns, but not auto pistols) are single action for the first round. That is, you have to cock it for the first round. After that, it ejects, cocks and loads automatically. There are a few double-action-only automatic pistols, but I can’t think of any right now (pre-caffeine post). Most modern pistols are double/single action (i.e., your choice for the first shot, automatic after that). The venerable Colt 1911 series and copies are not double-action.
…and on the capricious luck of the film crew. Since this thread is both touching on the real life of firearms ( about which I know nil ) as well as the film use of firearms ( about which I know a bit ), I’ll stick to da movies, as usual.
You cannot look at a gun in a scene in a movie, and judge it’s muzzle blast by what you see. The way you see the flash isn’t at all indicative of what it looks like in real life.
Without getting into a very detailed Film 101 discussion on rotating mirror reflex viewing systems, suffice to say that sometimes, at the split second that the flash actually EXITS the muzzle of the weapon, the film is not being exposed. A split second before, or later it is. It’s entirely capricious, trust me.
For every great take of a gunfight scene where you get to see the flashing of gunpowder at the end of the muzzle, there were a half dozen takes where you see either VERY intermittent flashing, or none at all.
Having said that, you have to believe that the flashing you see in the movies may or may not tell you how that weapon would work IRL. Possible exception would be the weaponry used during the filming of the excellent and very true-to-life movie, Men In Black.
Modern smokeless propellant, nitrocellulose/nitroglycerine, has little or no muzzle flash but old fashioned black powder is a different story. I use true gunpowder - a mixture of charcoal, sulfur and potassium nitrate (saltpeter) - in my competion cowboy guns, cap and ball revolvers, lever action and single shot cartridge revolvers and shotguns. There is enough burning powder in the muzzle blast to set paper and cloth on fire if it’s within a few feet of the barrel. I don’t mean black marks I mean FWOOM! The flash and massive smoke is a handicap in competition so it’s used in its own category but it’s spectactular to watch at dusk.
And FWIW I shoot in the Single Action Shooting Society so all my revolvers must be manually cocked before firing. Replica Colt 1851 navy revolvers for the most part but sometimes '60 Army models or my '47 Walker Dragoon. Rifles are all single action but cycling a lever action rifle automatically cocks the hammer.
Glock does make DAO pistols, but they also make lots of other kinds too. I don’t have sales figures or anything, but I’d bet the majority of Glocks sold are semi-auto SA/DA - that is, the trigger can cock the hammer.
However, there are semi-autos whose hammer can’t be cocked by the trigger. I have a target pistol that’s like this. The reason is if the trigger doesn’t have to cock the hammer, the pull is a lot lighter and snorter (= more accurate).
-Ben
It may produce less, or none in a lot of rifles, but every gun I own has produced musszle flash - except the .22 rifles. And my .44 Magnum has a muzzle flash that has to bee seen to be believed sometimes…
Most firearms have some amount of muzzle flash. Lots of shooters have never seen it because they don’t shoot their weapons in the dark. Our 9mm Colt Combat Commander has a muzzle flash that is quite visible under indoor lighting conditions (indoor gun range). In sunlight you won’t see it. At night, it’ll stand out like a searchlight if anyone is looking in that direction.
