In this thread, Trunk is struggling vainly to convince himself and everyone else that there is really nothing wrong with walking around “strapped” and not having the appropriate permit for doing so, provided the individual in question is really a John-Q-Public-law-abiding-taxpayer. Aside from the obvious idiocy of this argument, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
I don’t wear a watch, but did I lose track of time and find myself in 1875?
This isn’t 'nam, Trunk, there are RULES.
In most cases, getting a CCW/CHP permit requires some training to make sure that the applicant in question is not a nutjob (as I suspect you are) or a criminal.
You are the Cindy Sheehan of gun-rights advocates. You are just making the rest of us look bad.
If you’re a responsible gun owner, I really don’t see the point in getting a permit to carry your gun around.
It seems like a lot of hassle.
Now, if you’re actually worried about getting dragged into court should you have to use it, you sound like someone who should seek out a permit.
It’s not like not licensing your car just because you’re a responsible driver. In that case, you have a pretty chance of being pulled over at some time. . .headlight out, etc.
There’s really nothing else to say. You’re not going to convince me that we need to abide by laws that we think are pointless just because they exist.
Because IT’S THE FUCKING LAW
ETA: You obviously do not comprehend what a “law” is, and by extension, the definition of ABIDING by LAWS.
It’s not a lot of hassle. Especially if you feel your life is threatened enough to carry a weapon.
Guess what: You use a gun in self defense - you are going to get dragged into the legal system. If you are carrying it without a permit and you use it in self defense, you are going to be in that legal system much longer than you realize.
Weird. In the very unlikely case that he did need it, and used it without first shooting his pecker off, he could be facing felony charges. Seems that getting a permit is the smart thing to do. Unless you didn’t actually expect to need the gun, and just like to having it near you. That’s fairly pathetic, but I’m sure some people do think that way.
For the sake of the argument, let’s say I’m an MMA level fighter, and you are just a regular everyday not so tough guy. Should I respect the laws against beating you up and stealing your shit, even if I think they are pointless?
Maybe you are a responsible gun owner, maybe you aren’t. The permit isn’t for you so much as for the rest of society, to have some kind of assurance that you aren’t an armed moron.
Anyone who can legally own a handgun in Vermont can legally carry that firearm concealed. If you are not from Vermont, they will honor your state’s carry license.
Vermont issues licenses only for the purposes of reciprocity and obtaining out-of-state licenses for other states.
They believe that if you can own it, you can carry it. Are they all crazy?
Because that’s the definition of a “responsible gun owner”. If that seems like “a lot of hassle”, what do you think of getting realistic stress combat training, regularly practicing, being conversant with the relevant article of the penal code, maintaining positive control and awareness about the arm and your surroundings, regularly cleaning and servicing a duty arm, et cetera?
But hey, if I’m “not going to convince [you] that we need to abide by laws that we think are pointless just because they exist,” then by all means feel free to flaunt any law or social convention that you find inconvenient, objectionable, or unpalateable, or otherwise offensive to your sense of esthetics. Pick your nose at the table, yap in your cell phone in the middle of a showing of Lawrence of Arabia, and stick a handgun into whatever pocket you like so it makes you feel “safe” and “good”.
But don’t cry foul if you get caught and slapped with fines and jail time for illegally concealing a weapon when you could have easily avoided the entire problem.
Of course, the laws here say that if I want to carry my gun openly, I don’t need a permit at all. That makes things mighty convenient when I’m bringing the pistol to the gun range.
By this example, you’re saying it’s OK because the chance you’ll get caught is slim? You have a better ‘chance’ at being pulled over than getting caught without a permit.
How does that make it right?
Just because you think it is a stupid law doesn’t meant you won’t get into trouble for not following it.
For example, I think seatbelt laws or stupid. I don’t think that wearing seatbelts is stupid, but having a law that says you can be pulled over for not wearing it is stupid. I wear mine for safety, but being told I have to, well makes me mad.
In the case of carrying a firearm, even if you feel that the laws are stupid, infringe upon your rights or what have you, you still need to abide by those laws. Especially nowadays when there are so many people who think just by owning a gun you are a criminal. Yeah, some of the laws suck, some are stupid, but you still should abide by them.
If you conceal carry you need to be within the law of your state/county/city. If not, you are no longer a law-abiding gun owner, and frankly by doing so you are a “threat” to all of us who are.
Regardless of the merit or lack thereof of marijuana laws and any nonequivilent comparisons between marijuana and firearms, the fact is that (in most states) and according to the Federal government, the cultivation and consumption of pot is illegal. In the case of Trunk, he admits that even in the case of a legal and objective process to obtain a permit he’d still ignore the law and carry a gun as he saw fit, because it’s just too much of a hassle. (Implicit in that is that he doesn’t consider carrying a concealed firearm a hassle, which says that he either knows not of what he speaks, or is unacquinted with a little thing some of us like to call “reality”.) Then there’s his apparently idiot brother-in-law who illegally carries a firearm in Paris because it makes him feel “good” or “safe” or whatever it does for his self-esteem.
Anyone who appreciates the ramifications of actually using a firearm in self-defense–especially in a nation like France with restrictive gun laws–is going to have not just a small amount of concern about the value of carrying a firearm. There are credible reasons for wanting to be armed–for instance, if you carry large sums of money at night as part of your job, or if you are forced by circumstances to live in an unsafe neighborhood–but the primary purpose of a firearm and especially something as weak and inaccurate as a handgun isn’t to make you “safe” but to give you space to escape from a bad situation that you were not otherwise able to avoid outright.
Trunk’s casualness about violating laws that were fought for by people advocating that (most) gun owners are not irresponsible, unlawful yahoos who worship at the alter of Dirty Harry just reinforces the public opinion that, in fact, this is an accurate perception.
Also, he’s a twit.
Everything else I have to say on the topic has already been said in the previous thread.
As you’re aware, I paid my 19$ to the county sheriff’s office and have the little plastic card with my picture on it that says ‘License to Conceal Firearms’.
I agree with the sentiment, but am not willing to commit a felony to express my viewpoint.
That’s an odd argument. If you’re going to go to the trouble of having a gun just in case you need it, why not get a permit just in case you use the gun and find out you need that? I would guess you are just as likely to need the permit as you are to need the gun in the first place.
