LOUNE, compromise with what? You… feel that removing handguns from the equation is a good idea. I, on the other hand, feel that removing handguns from the equation is a bad thing. I’ve explained why. You haven’t, I don’t think.
You also have failed to explain why you feel that a subsection of civilians should have access to handguns whilst others would not.
In post #212. I stated….
LOUNE was ‘down with that’……
Well, regardless that it would be pretty much be impossible to guarantee, and I don’t really think it would make a difference, I did put that on the table for discussion.
What compromise would you suggest LOUNE?
And like cars, guns have different purposes. I can take my plow truck to the store (I don’t). I can pull out snow stuck cars with my Pathfinder. The motorcycle is not so good in bad weather.
I can take a road trip in my Pathfinder or a Prius. All those vehicles are transportation.
I can target shoot, defend my house our hunt with a .22 a .357 a 12ga or a .356.
Just like any of my vehicles are “transportation”, the guns I own can all be used for target shooting hunting or defense. Some are better then others for different purposes.
Why are you guys still wasting time with LOUNE?
Because he/she asked. And I think it is important to put across ideas and learn.
I have two cousins that I love dearly that know very little about guns. I do get into these debates with them. One has learned a bit, the other is rabidly afraid of guns.
I don’t consider the anti-gun folks the enemy in any sense of the word, but it does help me to find out why people seem to be so uninformed about guns and gun owners.
In that case, enjoy banging your head against the wall. I’m out.
I’m a programmer for the government. I few more knots on the knoggin is nothing.
Then tell me what you want. I’m not a mind reader. I don’t pretend to know what’s important to you, or even gun owners.
Same to you, E-Sabbath.
I appreciate the fact that I’m not worth your time, Airman Doors, but don’t you feel that some kind of resolution needs to be made on this front? I understand that you keep saying there’s no compromise that’s possible, but you’re just as guilty as the person that says that every gun and its ammunition need to be banned. We’re reasonable adults, and I don’t think I have any baggage to bring to the table. I’ll say it again: virtually every single thing that someone has wanted as a concession, I’ve been fine with. You think talking to me or coming up with a compromise is an exercise in futility, which shows a lack of trying on your part.
enipla: I’ve already stated the concession I want from my end, and that’s to have handguns outlawed. I think I also added that people with CCW permits are perfectly acceptable and they can have handguns, however hoops to jump through in obtaining a CCW has to be a little more strenuous (not impossible, mind you. I’d like it harder to get because more people would be potentially applying to get them that wouldn’t have got them before and might be people we don’t want to get handguns.) Also, I’d like for the requirements to get a CCW to be uniform in all states.
So, what else would you like, or are you satisfied?
So, you don’t want handguns outlawed.
You want mandatory registration for all handguns, with higher restrictions on who is able to register, equal to that of a modern CCW license. Plus some added difficulty.
What about states that don’t offer CCW licenses?
I’ll give you this to work with LOUNE: No bargain is going to be struck that will deprive me of the right to go out in the world and move to and fro in it while armed. AFAIAC, this isn’t about collecting guns, or guns for hunting, or any other hobby bullshit. This is about my fundamental human right to self-defense. You have nothing to offer that would induce me to bargain that away.
Any offer you put on the table that has the word “ban” in it is danger of an automatic no from me.
What is something I want? I want to be able to buy a new full-auto rifle with no more trouble than a semi-auto now involves and at no additional expense above what the market determines. What do you want in exchange?
I suppose it’s a glass-full was of looking at it. I want handguns outlawed. People can get CCW permits, provided that the tests and training to get them is made much more stringent. All states would offer CCW permits. Everyone should get the right to be able to apply for a permit. I’d say that there’s a more than moderate increase in the edgree of difficulty, but it would be consistent.
If you don’t get a CCW permit, which would be harder to get, you can’t buy a handgun.
Scumpup: how dangerous is your world? I’ll also level with you. As it stands, you simply do have that right to have handguns. I’m asking you to look at yourself and give up that right so we can put this issue to rest. I assume that you think that the issue isn’t resolved as it currently is. Sure. Buy a fully automatic weapon, provided they’re not military grade (we can argue over that as well) with no more hassle than you’d have getting a semi automatic rifle now. As an aside, why the push to get a fully automatic rifle? This is the second time you’ve mentioned that as something you strongly want.
It isn’t something I want, particularly, but they give antis conniption fits. So I want the right to easily purchase one in order to give you fits after you get rid of my handguns because they give you fits.
I do place great value on my right to own other arms, especially handguns. Because of their ease and convenience of carry, handguns are THE premier choice of firearms for civilian self-defense. In a military context, not so much. You are, therefore, asking me to voluntarily relinquish what is most suitable for my needs. Why don’t you just relinquish your desire to ban handguns and we can put the matter to rest that way?
It didn’t give me a fit. Have an automatic rifle. Get two. It’s your business.
So, again, you got what you wanted, unless you’re just trying to be an impediment.
And yes, like I said, I’m asking you to either relinquish your right to a handgun or apply for a CCW permit. Where am I not being flexible?
See, you’re weaseling again. Just a couple posts upthread you said this
Then you say this
Which is it?
See, I already have a ccw permit. I’ve had one since 1983, in fact. So you already have what you want. Where can I buy those rifles?
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[sub]bolding mine.[/sub] That speaks VOLUMES.
But then you go on to say…
What would I like?
Frankly, I would like to know what you think you are offering gun owners in this ‘win-win’ situation?
Would you agree that handguns that are registered through your new more restrictive CCW permits can never be banned or confiscated by use of the CCW registration?
How would you guarantee that?
Which is it? Do you understand why guns owners see this as a slippery slope? You want them banned or outlawed, but strict registration is OK. Be honest, is that a first step? Why should I trust you?
What is your opinion of existing handguns. Would they be made illegal if a person did not have a LEONECCW for it? Or does this only apply to new handguns?
No weaseling. Automatic weapons are fine, but military-grade weapons are off the table. This is where you ask where that distinction is drawn, and I cannot answer that.
Are you saying that all automatic weapons should be considered to be military-grade?
Also, if you have no dog in the fight, which it appears clear that you don’t, then you’re being an impediment.
There’s no slippery slope. I realize that many gun owners have been in contact with people that were looking to get rid of all guns. I’d like for handguns to be outlawed. As a concession, I’m fine for keeping CCW permits with the boundaries we set.
CCW permits would be nulled if the person that has the permit commits a felony or dies. Is that acceptable?
I’m offering you the rifle or shotgun of your choice, within limits. I’ve also been fine with virtually every concession you’ve wanted me to make.
Lastly, I’ve been upfront with everything here. This isn’t a first step; it’s a last step. I want to end the gun debate and come up with some kind of palatable compromise. Again, the Second Amendment is there, and I don’t want to get rid of it. I want handguns away from criminals. That’s it. If you’re a law abiding citizen and you want a handgun, apply under the new rules.
Now, what happens to existing weapons? I’d be cool with a bounty or some kind of guaranteed credit to a rifle or shotgun. Realistically speaking, they’d be grandfathered in.
There’s no slippery slope. I realize that many gun owners have been in contact with people that were looking to get rid of all guns. I’d like for handguns to be outlawed. As a concession, I’m fine for keeping CCW permits with the boundaries we set.
CCW permits would be nulled if the person that has the permit commits a felony or dies. Is that acceptable?
I’m offering you the rifle or shotgun of your choice, within limits. I’ve also been fine with virtually every concession you’ve wanted me to make.
Lastly, I’ve been upfront with everything here. This isn’t a first step; it’s a last step. I want to end the gun debate and come up with some kind of palatable compromise. Again, the Second Amendment is there, and I don’t want to get rid of it. I want handguns away from criminals. That’s it. If you’re a law abiding citizen and you want a handgun, apply under the new rules.
Now, what happens to existing weapons? I’d be cool with a bounty or some kind of guaranteed credit to a rifle or shotgun. Realistically speaking, they’d be grandfathered in.
All commercial manufacture automatic weapons are military grade. The only ones that aren’t are, say, what happens when you screw around with a semi-automatic, so the sear slips. Basically, kitbash jobs. These are, ah, not safe guns.
The mark of a military weapon is that it is safe, reliable, and does what it is told repeatedly and consistently. The measure of power behind it depends on the task required. There are military uses for everything from a blowdart to an atom bomb.
You didn’t set the boundaries, other than to say it would be stricter.
Felons aren’t allowed a CCW. Or to own a gun. And a CCW does not get transferred when the permit holder dies. That’s the way it already is. So it looks like you already have what you want. I don’t usually do this but. :smack:
Define “A”. A gun owner can either have A shotgun or A rifle. One? You’re joking.
So new hand guns are OK as long as you get a CCW.
Your avoiding the question once again. What would be grandfathered in? Existing weapons? What is a weapon. Are you trying to say handguns? Your cool with a ‘bounty’ (what do you mean by that - a credit?) for an new long gun?
Realistically speaking, they’d be grandfathered in? A handgun would be grandfathered in? huh?
I did not ask about rifles or shotguns. I was talking about existing handguns.
Did you help write the old AWB?